Just several points:

1. Prohibition hasn't worked in the past and won't ever work.

2. The problem is not pushers/peddlars or whatever prejorative supply side name you wish to use, the problem is USERS who want a particular drug whether it be because of addiction or perhaps they just like the effect it has. Any demand here will be satisfied by someone for a price

2. So yes their execution will be pointless given 1 & 2 above

3. They went in doing this knowing the potential consequences. So while I feel sorry for them they went in with their eyes open. Perhaps they should have their eyes open facing the firing squad?

As for any other compassion, no. The most I would give them is a Darwin award and even that is stretching it.

Regards
dkit

Shooting the messenger...

yeah, that always works Mr Ariel.

As an economist, it's a surprise you don't have even a rudimentary understanding of game theory or behavioural economics.

They knew full well all the risks, and the possibility that their personally transported for mere money, load would've killed half a dozen kids?

If you're willing to accept the consequences of a particular action, then take that action if you want to, or are stupid enough!

And be warned, we have no power to alter outcomes in sovereign lands, however much we might disagree with their laws or the death sentence.

If you want money, get out and do some honest work for it!
I mean, there are mining camps way out in whoop whoop, were food and very basic lodgings go with the job.

And where a man or a women, practicing sobriety and frugality, could save enough for almost anything.

Including several positively geared investment properties.

And if you're willing to accept the usual risks and responsibilities, become rich over time.

And in comparison to the man who spends twenty years inside for a series of petty thefts or drug running, far richer than any of them, and still living in comparative freedom, free from real want!

There's is always other "safe" choices, just not an easy or get rich quick way.

The problem with easy money, it goes out as quick as it came in, as opposed to something you personally sacrificed for, and therefore earned and or deserved; put a high value on; and get to keep/invest wisely!

Conversely, high profile criminal like Biggs, i.e., got hundreds of thousands from the Great train robbery, yet died a very sick pauper, living on the charity and goodwill of others!

What's a drug mule get?
A few lousy thousand, and at what risk?

Suppose a few bags blow up inside?
Will you completely recover, or ever?
You'd likely make more selling your arse here; and at no greater risk?

Sorry, but my natural sympathies are reserved for those who deserve it!
Rhrosty.

They took the ricks. They'll pay the penalty. Australia should have the same rules. "You don't understand," is not an excuse.

Why do they have to wait so long to carry out sentencing? Get sentenced, have an appeal a week later, then, Bang. Keeping them in prison is costing a fortune.

It's only the Lawyers that want to prolong the procedure, for the money they make.

I see this the same as those poor illegals on Manus Island. The few are suffering for the sake of the bigger picture. It is tragic. The Government has certainly saved thousands of drownings and the entrance of many more undesirables into this great country. The 'regressives'preferred ideology (this including the drownings) over commonsense and even compassion. The Greens/Labour displayed absolute hypocrisy. Now as tragic as it is one would hope that at least a few heartless self centred aussies who are involved in the drug trade will at least think before acting. Not everyone is pretty like Corby who had all the 'progressives'again declaring her innocence while every Indonesian knew otherwise. We would do well to stop telling the Indonesians how to run their legal system when ours is so poor.

Personally, I do not agree with Capital Punishment ! However, these two individuals are far from being termed as mere 'mules', both are further up the chain, how far up, we're not sure but far enough to coerce the other seven fools to become mules.

Should all Australia's pleas for clemency fail, I'll be very sorry indeed, but that doesn't alter the fact that these two idiots knew EXACTLY what they were doing and the consequence of those actions.

The only puzzling component that I see in this whole matter, comes from another contributor, 'CRAIG MINNS' when he says inter alia '...rudimentary understanding of game theory or behavioural economics...'? I'm sorry, but I have no idea how that statement fits into this whole equation of a couple of crooks, getting aerated by a firing squad ? There again, I am slow !

Had their drug run been successful then they would have enjoyed the profits, it wasn't a success.

Tough.

o sung wu

I too oppose the death penalty, and am glad to see our PM and Foreign Minister doing what’s appropriate in the circumstances – stating Australia’s in-principle opposition to the death penalty and arguing for whatever mitigation may be possible for Australian citizens within the framework of whatever foreign legal system they may be caught up in.

I disliked the vindictive and gloating tone of this article. Chan and Sukamaran surely knew the risks, and are hardly innocent. They were incredibly stupid. According to the Mercy Campaign, they have reformed in prison. Whatever the outcome, it will result in two wasted lives.

Incidentally, the article is incorrect to say the USA executes people for drug trafficking. Only aggravated murder is subject to the death penalty.

Rian: am glad to see our PM and Foreign Minister doing what’s appropriate in the circumstances – stating Australia’s in-principle opposition to the death penalty and arguing for whatever mitigation may be possible for Australian citizens.

Mouthing words to appear to appease the PC & Latte Set. While not really caring. I'm with him except I tell it like it is. I just don't know they have wasted so much time. They should heave been shot years ago.

Quite correct Is Mise.

Rhian

Sorry but you are incorrect.
Under 21 U.S.C. §841(b) (1988)) when trafficking heroin in the quantum of 100-999 grams, the penalty is between 5 and 40 years in gaol, however it rises to anywhere from 20 years imprisonment to the death penalty if the case is related to serious injury or death.

I also draw your attention to (21 U.S.C. 848 (c)(1)

Craig I think your analogy is incorrect.
You hold that the matter falls into the realm of game theory
(of which I am aware) and behavioural economics.

I disagree.

For me the better analogy of Chan and Sukumaran is gambling.
The drug smugglers as it were played roulette.
They as it were, bet their houses, savings and then some on the delusion that their lucky number “37” will magically come up
on the wheel and voila, there’s their PAYDAY.

Breaking news: but even roulette wheels in Indonesia don’t have a “37”.

Corby should also be tied to a tree and have to look at a few rifles pointing her way, think of the millions she will make when she is released back in Australia, she already would be quite wealthy thanks to the media and Woman's Day, likewise think of the millions these two drug dealers will receive if released from the media, just be a drug runner, get caught, get off, and name your price and live happily ever after, that folks is the way it works, crime pays.

Today, the Daily Telegraph newspaper in Sydney had a feature on the ghastly social consequences resulting from the Methamphetamine plague. It seems that our leaders are at their wits end trying to figure out a way to combat it. Suggestions include mandatory frug counselling and mandatory drug rehabilitation, with the good old Aussie taxpayer footing the bill.

The Indonesians are a lot smarter than we are. With 45 to 50 young Indonesians dying every day from drug overdoses, they Indonesians are going to shoot every damned drug pusher they catch until the drug runners get the message. We should do exactly the same thing here. Instead of wringing our hands and wondering how the taxpayer should fix everything, every meth lab cooker caught in the act should be executed in the British fashion. Once convicted, they get no more than 3 Sunday's before they drop with a rope around their necks.

The execution of Barlow and Chambers in Singapore 25 years ago saw an immediate drop in the importation of drugs from Asia into Australia. I predict the Indonesian President's actions to have drug kingpins like Chan and Sukhamaron shot will do the same thing.

Jonathon, perhaps I was hasty, so please accept my apologies for casting aspersions on your professional expertise.

Allow me to explain why game theory and behavioural economics are applicable.

The ostensible reason for the Indonesian application of the death penalty is to reduce the incidence of drug trafficking over time. This is a situation perfectly modellable using game theory, given the assumption that drug traffickers are able to assess the potential risk of being caught, the potential penalty and the potential reward if one is not caught, then decide on the optimal course rationally.

It is further assumed that the game will iterate in such a way that each new drug-trafficking decision-making process will be weighted increasingly by knowledge of the consequence, so that consequence is broadly and luridly publicised. This is behavioural economics 101.

The problem is that deciding to traffic drugs is unlikely to be a rational decision and the assumptions in regard to the motivations, behavioural drivers and rationality of those who are likely to be candidates for drug trafficking are purest wishful thinking.

There are other groups than the drug traffickers whose reactions are much more predictable. Who was this article aimed at?

Jonathan

Some US States have the death penalty on their books for serious crime including large-scale drug trafficking leading to death or serious harm. It is the death or serious harm part that may justify the death penalty, not the drug trafficking. It’s quite different to the case in Indonesia, where drug trafficking by itself can get you shot.

In the UK, “piracy with violence” was a technically a capital offence until 1998, but no one thought that pirates would hang in the 1980s. Likewise, “arson of naval dockyards”, ceased to be a capital crime in New South Wales in 1996.

No-one has ever been executed in the USA for trafficking, and so far as I know no-one in the modern era has been sentenced to death for trafficking.

Harm Reduction International classifies the USA’s death penalty for drug offences as ‘symbolic’, meaning there is little or no chance of death sentences being carried out.

http://www.ihra.net/files/2014/08/06/IHRA_DeathPenaltyReport_Sept2011_Web.pdf

LEGO

You say the Indonesians “are going to shoot every damned drug pusher they catch until the drug runners get the message”. That’s not what they do. Until 2015 executions for drug trafficking were rare. Overwhelmingly it is foreigners who have been executed for drug offences. Unless Indonesians don’t do drug trafficking, this suggests a certain level of discrimination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Indonesia#Execution_Statistics

OJNAB...

Your comments apropos Ms CORBY was very interesting indeed ? Another commercial success I would suggest, for her at least ? Despite the provisions of the 'Proceeds of Crimes' legislation, she'll need to circumvent, and circumvent she will, because of all the 'Jelly' Judges we have presiding within our erudite judiciary ! In fact she'll make 'squillions' from her importation of drugs, together with her time in prison, and what's wrong with that, it's the Australian way, and why not ?

OJNAB

yes Ojnab its nice for once to be able to be in agreement with most of what you have said. I think she probably has paid for her crime but unfortunately much of the idiotic media that tried to paint her as a victim just continues with no accountability. Sad that her family also seem to have profited from this crime. No wonder the Indonesians treat us as hypocrites.

They're not "enjoying Indonesian hospitality", they're locked up in a maximum security Indonesian prison! As indeed they should be. But while Indonesia does have the right to execute them, there are some very good reasons not to:
Firstly the sentences are excessive. They'd previously been given twenty year sentences, and they were only given death sentences after a prosecution appeal.

Secondly, better enforcement is a much more effective deterrent than harsher sentences. And the reason they were caught is that they'd been dobbed in by the father of another of the nine. The risk of death sentences makes future cooperation of this type less likely.

Australia should stress to Indonesia the superiority of the better enforcement option, and offer assistance to Indonesia to implement it instead of relying on needlessly harsh sentences.

As far as I am concerned,the deaths of the two drug runners is not worth talking about.

We gain from a little more available oxygen and two less parasites.