Hi Lego,
Islam is not diametrically opposed to our values. It is an Abrahamic religion like Judaism and Christianity. These religions all believe in the same God of the old testament, Jews are still waiting for the Messiah, Christians and Muslims both believe Jesus was the Messiah, Mohammed was more like the prophets of the old testament - no doubt about it. Jesus was definitely more like a 1970s hippy ;)

His teachings about turning the other cheek; love your enemies - do good to those who hurt you, blessed are the peacemakers. Yes, these beliefs will ensure you get your ass kicked. This is why Christianity wasn't suitable as a national religion until Constantine shaped into something more suitable for the purposes of the state.

However, many people say it shows real bravery and fortitude, to live by these ideals, and if you are a real Christian, this life is not of much importance - the next is for all eternity. It's a bit harder for people like me who don't believe in heaven, but people have died for sillier reasons than principles.

Multiculturalists are not responsible for the surveillance state. Islamic terrorists aren't super human. I don't see why we can't use the traditional search powers like search warrants to investigate crimes. A 9/11 style threat was known by the CIA - they tried warning the Bush admin but they weren't listening. After Bush was told US was under attack (after 2nd plane hit the 2nd tower) he stayed in the class for 10 minutes - He had been informed about the first crash before he went into the classroom wtf?? 9/11 was preventable, but it was allowed to happen.

Many Islamic countries do not use Sharia law, or only for some parts of their law. Very few use the full Sharia law - many of them are our allies. Like Iraq (it was a secular state before Gulf War 2), Afhghanistan (guess 10 years of occupation didn't do much for women, but it sure got those poppy fields going again - hmm),Pakistan, Saudi Arabia.

"Islam is not opposed to our values"? Are you for real, BJelly?

The concept that state and religion should be separate, and that state and religion are inseparable is incompatible.

The concept t hat husbands have a right to beat their wives is incompatible.

The concept that secular Law and Ecclesiastical law are pre eminent over each other is incompatible.

The concept that females are minors, and subject to guardian male control, unable to even leave the house, or enter into any contract, is incompatible to contemporary western concepts of female equality.

The concept that apostates and blasphemers should be murdered is incompatible to western liberal thought.

The concept that women should have no say in whom they marry, and that a marriage can occur not requiring the consent of the woman, is incompatible to western ideals

The concept that homosexuality should be a capitol offence, is incompatible with western concepts of tolerance towards homosexuals.

The concept that allegations of rape must be validated by four male witnesses of Islamic faith is incompatible with western evidentiary jurisprudence.

The Muslim concept that a raped woman should be punished is incompatible to western ideas.

The Muslim concept a man may marry outside of his faith, but that a woman may not, is incompatible to western values.

The Muslim concept that alcohol consumption should be proscribed is incompatible with western traditions.

The concept that a man may divorce a woman, simply by reciting 'I divorce thee", three times, but does not give equivalence to women, is incompatible to western concepts of divorce.

The Muslim concept that males are filled with "uncontrollable lusts" and that women, by their behaviour and dress are responsible for keeping these lusts contained, is incompatible with western concepts, that men are responsible for controlling their own sex drive.

The contemporary Muslim concept of marrying first cousins to keep property in the family is incompatible to sensible genetic hygiene as practiced in the west.

The concept that it is right and valid for a religion to spread by military force is incompatible to contemporary western thought.

Continued. To BJelly.

Addressing the rest of your post.

The Christian and Muslim faiths are fundamentally different in their scriptural teachings. One was started by a pacifist, and the other by a warlord who wanted to make his warriors invincible in battle. Christianity is fundamentally a pacifist religion and it's fundamentalists, like the Amish, the Mennonites and the Quakers are pacifists. Any Christian who holds violent and extremist views can be called "unchristian." Islam is fundamentally a violent religion and it's fundamentalists are (unsurprisingly) extremely violent.

Most Christians reject total pacifism as inappropriate to self preservation, but they still cherish the ideal of advocating non violence and tolerence. Most Muslims do not want to commit violence in Allah's name, but they can not bring themselves to criticise the fundamentalist Muslims who do exactly what Allah tells them to do. Muslims believe that the Koran is the literal word of God and God has told the Muslims that those who use force to expand Islam are the very finest Muslims there are.

Multiculturalists are responsible for the growing violence in Australian society which is seeing ever more repressive laws being implemeted for our own protection, and our police beginning to look like stormtroopers. NSW Police may now randomly stop and search cars and that was brought about by the penchant for Vietnamese drug traffickers to use motor vehicles to deliver drugs to other states. Our terrorism laws are in response to Islamic terrorism that is manifesting itself within our own country. If we had kept Muslims and other crime and welfare prone minorities out of our country, we would never have had the need to make our laws more restrictive.

What we are seeing today is a clash of civilisations. The Muslim world is aghast that their civilisation is doing so badly against the west and the Asians. But instead of doing a Kamal Attaturk and figuring out that pure Islam is an impediment to prosperity and social advancement, the Muslims think THEY ARE NOT MUSLIM ENOUGH. That is why they are turning into violent fundamentalists. They want Allah's blessings.

LEGO +++, BJelly ---

Hi Lego,

I'm not sure why your replies are getting more shrill.

You say a Muslim majority in Australia = Sharia law.
I say the evidence doesn't support this.

Many Islamic majority states have a civil law system like ours.
eg Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Uzbekistan, Tunisia, Mozambique and as you mentioned Turkey - there are more, but I think you can see that your hypothesis is false. There are examples of Muslim majority nations with full Sharia law, but stunningly they are often the allies of the West - like Saudi Arabia.

How can it be a real clash of civilizations when the most fundamentalist Islamic countries are the ones which have the closest ties to the USA and its allies? hmm - doesn't make any sense does it?

I would make the analogy that the threat of a Muslim takeover of our country is like a termite invasion - it might possibly happen over decades- but it is a long term potential problem.

However, the danger of the surveillance state is more like a fire - it is an emergency that is happening now. Senator Brandis is puting few if any sunset clauses into his legislation. The government is giving itself so many powers and limiting press and individual's free speech - it is turning us into a turn-key totalitarian state.

We can deal with law breakers with laws that allow investigation of suspects - we should not ALL be treated as potential criminals which these terror laws do. NO ONE has died from terrorism in Australia in the last 30 or 40 years. However, on average one woman is killed every week in Australia - why is not more done to stop this? The threat of terror is just an excuse to take away our freedoms.

As Goering said: "the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Almost all Muslim nations are totalitarian, and in those totalitarian Muslim nations the unelected leaders are in a competition with the Mullahs over who has paramount control. It is very similar to situation which existed in the middle ages between western kings and the church. Many Muslim dictators (like Saddam Hussein) knew that it would be very bad for their countries to let the mullahs control the law system through Sharia and so they have instigated law systems over which the dictator had complete control.

The Islamic world is now experiencing a Reformation. But it is completely different to the Christian Reformation. Christianity went back to it's original scriptures in which it's founder preached peace, love, and tolerance. The Muslims are going back to their original scriptures which teach violence, intolerance and the obligation for Muslims to support those who will use violence to take over the world for Islam.

Saudi Arabia is a fundamentalist Muslim nation in which it's own school books proclaim "all non Muslims are your enemies." But they are an important Muslim nation because of their oil and because they own the most holy sites in Islam, which makes them fair game for any Muslim nation with notions of grandeur. The Saudis need the yanks to defend them even though they despise them. The Saudis know that Islam must take over the world, so they play the game different to ISIS. They support Muslim immigration into western nations and put up the money to build mosques.

I am amazed that after the terrorist incidents in Canada, Britain, the USA, Madrid, and Melbourne that you are still claiming that there is no problem and we do not need increased security. I suppose that when your multicultural utopia is self evidently coming apart, exactly as predicted by the "racists", you need to blame everybody but yourselves for what is happening.

I am staggered that you think that the Islamisation of European nations is a problem for the future, so why worry now? The Muslims and the Chinese who think ahead should give you an award.