Seriously David, it's just not Obama's problem or responsibility! Neither Israel nor Palestine are going away, EVER!
Let the RESPONSIBLE Israeli and Palestinian leaders sit down and nut out an agreement they can all live with, in enduring lasting peace.
And for practical purposes, it can't ever be perfect, or fill any part of a terrorist organisation's claim or slogan!
Don't just do something, stand there!
Rhrosty.

‘morning David,

Many of us have endured over 100 of your articles on Palestine since 2008. Don’t you think you are getting a little bit.. er.. obsessive about this?

I know you are struggling for traction and that the debate is getting away from you but for pities sake man, get a life.

Isn’t there something you can think of in the real world to which you could turn your obsessive compulsive behavior?

Think of it this way, what will you do when the Palestinians are either wiped off the map or integrated within Israel?

How about the ‘Historical relevance of postmodern tiddly winks played in darkened rooms”?

Note for GY, enough already.

David,

since you are so happy to accept the British decision on Palestine (and other decisions). I have a proposal for you that is identical and I'm sure equally acceptible to you. I have decided that you don't need all of your house. You aren't using all the rooms. I propose that it be given in perpetuity to the next refugee family accepted to Australia. Sounds fair to me since it's fair for Palestine.

Regards
dkit

Singer, do you realize that Israel has fallen off the world agenda?

Yeah, Singer, the world has more pressing problems now than a handful of Jewish fanatics and their plans for a Greater Israel.

Don't take it personally now. You've had a pretty good run, wouldn't you say?

But Israel is now small cheese given the coming battle between the Psychotic, Bankrupt, Imperialist U.S. and the emergence of Russia and China who intend to bring some needed balance to the world.

Israelis should move to the U.S. while they can. There is no place for them in the Middle East!

I admit I don't see why the states established in the carve-up of the Ottoman empire, by the then imperial powers, and the now defunct League of Nations, should be preserved.

I don't see a vision in the states of the middle east worth preserving. It is full of dreadful chronic conflict and hatred, and I can't see but that the Balfour Declaration, and all the post-colonial and imperial meddling of the last century has exacerbated it.

Not only that, but the more the US has intervened in Arab states, the more Islamicist and rat-bag the result, have you noticed that?

At base, the problem is that the Jews think of "the restoration of Palestine to the Jewish people" i.e. it belongs to them (because God said so), and the Arabs think of Palestine as "consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day" i.e. it belongs to them (because God said so).

In theory, this is a zero-sum game, the two parties are acting like spoilt children, and the rest of the world wishes they would bloody well grow up.

In practice, given their mutual mindset, there is no solution but for the parties to fight it out. The last 40 years of "peace talks" have come to this - a bad joke. Could it have been worse if the West had never tried any of their clever interventionist statist schemes?

The root of the problem is not religion or chauvinism per se, since religious and chauvinist people can and do share the same land and worship peacefully side by side.

The root of the problem is the idea that each group must have a monopoly of coercion dictating any and every aspect of life to everyone subject to it. The root of the problem is the very idea of the State - which is the only thing Arabs and Israelis are agreed on!

ISIS is just an incipient state, and the pretensions of the United Nations to stand for something better are morally dubious, all being sprung from the same source. They are all mere double-talking zero-sum coercive monopolists.

Rhrosty

I understand your frustration.

A solution was achieved between 1948-1967 when the West Bank was unified with Transjordan and the entity renamed Jordan in 1950.

Getting back to that situation - as far as is now possible given the changed circumstances on the ground since then - remains the only way forward.

This means direct negotiations between Jordan and Israel.

The creation of another Arab state between Israel and Jordan was rejected by the Arabs in 1947. Trying to rectify that lost opportunity has proved yet again to be another lost opportunity after 20 years of fruitless negotiations.

#spindoc

Glad to see you have been counting my articles in OLO.

Remind me - have you ever commented on the actual contents of those articles?

To avoid upsetting yourself - simply avoid reading any articles written by me.

#dkit

The decision to legalise the right of the Jews to reconstitute their Jewish National Home in Palestine was not that of Great Britain - but the unanimous decision of all 52 member States of the League of Nations.

If you cannot understand that - then I am afraid that you are going to argue from a base without any foundations.

When that happens the house you try to build on it will collapse.

#David G

Thought you weren't going to comment on my articles any more - that those who did were persons of "low intellect"

Your claim that "Israel has fallen off the world agenda" is a load of codswallop.

Just Google "Israel" News and have a look for yourself.

For once I agree with your assessment that Israel is small cheese compared to the horrendous conflict being waged in Syria and Iraq at the moment and threatening to spill over into Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey.

I first wrote about the deteriorating position in Syria more than twelve months ago. I guess you were too busy having a shot at me to take any notice.

#Jardine K Jardine

If you can't appreciate what is happening before your very eyes to the civilian populations in independent States now being subjected to carve up and incorporation into one Islamic caliphate - then you are walking around with a blindfold over your head.

International law exists - to be complied with for better or for worse. Trying to reverse it by terror - as is happening now - is a recipe for disaster.

My article points out how the three Mandates for Syria/Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine were all cut from the same cloth. Trying to undo one by terror - Palestine - has emboldened ISIS to try and undo the other two by terror - at horrendous and future cost to the lives of millions of human beings caught up in this evil and barbarism.

Can you point me to any reference where God said that Palestine is "consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day"?

Hamas says that - but they are a far cry from any God.

You fall into the same trap as #spindoc in claiming:

"the problem is that the Jews think of "the restoration of Palestine to the Jewish people" i.e. it belongs to them (because God said so),"

Not only the Jews thought this - but all 52 member states of the League of Nations also agreed in 1922 when creating the Mandate for Palestine on just 0.01% of the 400 year old Ottoman Empire territories conquered in World War I - whilst giving the Arabs the right to self determination in the remaining 99.99%.

You state:
"In practice, given their mutual mindset, there is no solution but for the parties to fight it out."

As I pointed out to #Rhrosty there is a solution that involves direct negotiations between Israel and Jordan.

How much more death and suffering has to occur before international pressure is put on Israel and Jordan to sit down and allocate sovereignty of the West Bank between their respective States?

You are suggesting the end of the concept of statehood - with what? A world wide Caliphate?

"International law exists - to be complied with for better or for worse. Trying to reverse it by terror - as is happening now - is a recipe for disaster."

Now who do you think said these words? Yes, you're right. It was the Singer (see above), a duplicitous apologist for the Imperial nation of Israel which, just recently, bombed the tripe out of the Gaza Strip, killing more than 2,000 Palestinians, women, kids, old people, civilians while destroying most of the remaining infrastructure.

The same Israel has ignored International Law on a million occasions and continues to steal Palestinian land to build illegal Settlements and commit war crimes.

Hang your head in shame, Singer. You are a towering, unabashed hypocrite!

Dear Jardine,

<<In practice, given their mutual mindset, there is no solution but for the parties to fight it out.>>

What you have omitted is that in that region there are also many others who do not believe that "God said so", including most Israelis and an unknown number of Arabs as they're too afraid to speak up.

While those who believe that "God said so" are welcome to fight and kill each other, they should find an isolated spot in the desert to do so without hurting the innocent people who live there too.

---

Dear David Singer,

<<remains the only way forward.
This means direct negotiations between Jordan and Israel.>>

Why not China?

For Jordan, holding the West Bank would bring insurgence and instability.

For Israel, holding the West Bank brings moral corruption which eats up Israel from the inside, leaving only an empty shell of military might (which too, without the support of a vibrant living community with conviction of purpose, will crumble in time).

Why punish any of these people (or share the punishment between them)? You could just as well have a draw between all the nations of the world and whoever picks the short stick has to control this cursed West Bank (or perhaps they should take turns doing that filthy job?)!

Except, that we have those idiots who call themselves "Palestinians" and they WANT it. We can roll our eyes, but they actually WANT to control that place, those fools - so just let them have it and thank God for creating the feeble-minded!

‘morning David,

That was a perfectly executed “Lateral Arabesque”.

Drawing away from the actual criticism of 100 articles on the same topic over 4 years, you nicely side stepped into trying to discredit the messenger by questioning if I had read or responded to your articles. In answer, yes, and many more on the same topic, as have hundreds of others.

My issue is as stated, you have pounded this one to death, you are not getting any traction outside your minority “group thinkers” and the debate is getting away from you.

Why else would you become so obsessive?

This space has already been occupied for a long time by “John Pilger”, it is neither original, open minded or the subject of critical thinking. Such volume on the same topic over and over is not journalistic, not debate and certainly does not add value. It is simply proselytisation or bullying by volume.

Why don’t you tell OLO’ers what it is you want to achieve, maybe we can help you?

GY is the editor in chief, it’s his site and he can accept whatever he wants however, as a customer, consumer and contributor I am entitled, within GY’s rules, the provide customer feedback. You just had mine.

By doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome you exhibit obsessive tendencies. If you think I’m wrong you have the right to challenge that opinion.

So what is it you hope to achieve with 100 articles on the same topic over 4 years? Or do you just like the sound of your own obsession and self indoctrination?

Same old overlordspeak. Same old plea for the colonial overlords' decisions on disposal of colonial territory - without reference to the legitimate inhabitants - to be accepted by the dispossessed as "law" .

And now the overlords' spokesman is plumping for a new division of Palestine in negotiations between foreign settlers and the foreign state of Jordan.

The right people to make the decision about Palestine, through their CHOSEN representatives, are the Palestinians including those driven into exile in the Nakba. Not foreign racist settlers. Not foreign colonial governments. Not foreign feudal aristocracies. Anything less has no moral claim to respect or acceptance by the wider international community.

“Can you point me to any reference where God said that Palestine is "consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day"?”

No.

However I don’t need to. It’s enough that Muslim parties are proceeding – armed - on that basis.

“Hamas says that - but they are a far cry from any God.”

You are only demonstrating that both parties are trying to resolve the conflict on the basis of who are God’s representatives on earth.

“all 52 member states of the League of Nations also agreed in 1922 when creating the Mandate for Palestine on just 0.01% of the 400 year old Ottoman Empire territories conquered in World War I - whilst giving the Arabs the right to self determination in the remaining 99.99%.”

The League of Nations thought that: So what? Obviously the Muslims couldn’t care less. I don’t agree for entirely different reasons. And the result has been chronic dreadful racial and sectarian conflict. “The tree is known by its fruit”.

“there is a solution that involves direct negotiations between Israel and Jordan.”

Good luck with that.

“How much more death and suffering has to occur before international pressure is put on Israel and Jordan to sit down and allocate sovereignty of the West Bank between their respective States?”

Good luck with that too.

You are only demonstrating that your proposed solution involves a lot more than “direct negotiations between Israel and Jordan”.

In any event, given that widespread populism throughout all Muslimdom (like that? new word) is antagonistic to the very existence of Israel, I can’t see how the agreement of Jordan would necessarily be a solution? And I can’t see how you have faith that it would?

“You are suggesting the end of the concept of statehood - with what? A world wide Caliphate?”

I’m merely pointing out that the cause of problem is the concept of statehood itself. Your vaunted “international law” is just a state of anarchy backed by the force of the strongest against the weakest. How is that morally or technically any different from what you are calling “terror”?

Intel from Pete :)

"Secret Russian spy base in Syria seized by Western-backed rebels" http://intelnews.org/2014/10/09/01-1571/ :

"Rebel forces aligned to Syria’s Western-backed opposition have announced the seizure of a joint Syrian-Russian spy base, which observers say reveals the extent of Russia’s intelligence cooperation with Syria. The base is located at the base of the Tel Al-Hara Mountain, in southern Syria’s Golan Heights region, just south of the border crossing with Israel in the now largely destroyed Syrian city of Quneitra.

At some point in the video, the seal of Syrian intelligence is clearly visible, placed next to the seal of the GRU’s 6th Directorate, the branch of Russian military intelligence that is tasked with collecting signals intelligence (SIGINT).

Interestingly, one of the walls in the base features a map of northern Israel, an area that is adjacent to the Golan Heights, and appears to show the location of Israeli SIGINT stations and military encampments."

“The PLO, pursuant to Article 20 of its 1968 Covenant, has never accepted the legal validity of the Mandate for Palestine, nor Great Britain's 1923 decision.”

Following Sweden's recent commitment to recognise the State of Palestine British MPs are set to vote on the issue shortly.

Will David and Israel be prepared to accept Britian's 2014 decision?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29479418

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/british-mps-set-to-vote-on-recognising-the-palestine-state/story-fnb64oi6-1227086087896

Plantagenet writes:
"Secret Russian spy base in Syria seized by Western-backed rebels" http://intelnews.org/2014/10/09/01-1571/ :

So the Russians have allied themselves to the only regime in the Middle East not mired in pig-ignorant coercive theocracy, which is defending its secular sovereign government against a gaggle of deadly coup groups so motley as to confound its Yank sponsors with an ever-changing dilemma over which ones to admit to opposing and which ones to admit to defending.

Onya, Ivan. Nice to see at least someone with some common sense.

EmperorJulian

Nice try.

Syria's President Assad is notoriously Islamic sectarian and the latest in an undemocratic family dynasty. Syria's Assad leads a Shiite minority ruling over a downtrodden Sunni majority.

Assad has had more than 100,000 victims of his cruel rule killed.

Assad is clearly yours and Russia's hero.