Giday James O'Neill

So what's your pernicious leftwing take on responsibility for the Tiananmen Square Massacre by the Chinese People's Liberation Army?

Was it all the West's fault?

Pete

Looks like the shopkeepers of HK are revolting against the protestors. The protestors have all but stopped tourism, traffic and usual custom to many shops on Hong Kong Island.

Adult Shop keeper Wang Hung-lo brandishing a long plastic cucumber-shaped object has been arrested for assaulting protesters.

On Wednesday, in the snarled traffic of old Kowloon, a motorist was arrested for attempting to drive his vehicle through the midst of several hundred democracy protesters. As police detained the driver, a shopkeeper named Kok Hung told reporters that his sympathies lie with the vehicle owner, that the activists’ camps are an increasing nuisance and an impediment to ordinary folk who "go about your business" [as Australia's counter-terrorist politicians would say] .

Pete: "pernicious leftwing". My, how standards are dropping on this site (not that they were very high in the first place). One of the many problems with your approach is to try and fit things into a predetermined category which you either accept or reject according to your own world view.

Can I suggest an alternative? I assume, given your cv at the base of your articles, that you have sufficient intelligence to cope with a range of thoughts. Try looking at the evidence. Test the evidence against the usual standards as juries are instructed by the Judge to do. What emerges is a workable hypothesis. It may even reach the standard of a theory. Continue to test that hypothesis/theory against fresh evidence as it emerges. Modify said theory as necessary. It's not rocket science. The beauty is that it requires neither a "left" "centre" nor "right" perspective.

The second beauty of this approach is that it can be applied to almost any given situation. You and I share an interest in geo-politics and I am sure that over a beer or two we would have a wide ranging and intelligent discussion. We might not necessarily agree on the conclusion. I would like to think we could do that without resorting to the juvenile labelling and name calling that bedevils this site. Not too much to ask.

As to your specific question: I don't have an answer any more than I can provide instant solutions to the Palestine issue; Ukraine or world hunger. But I do recognise BS when I hear/read it. I also know that we are lied to more by what we are not told than what we are told. Hence my scepticism about any official version peddled in the media, mainstream or otherwise.

Giday Jimmy

So what your saying Beijing-Moscow apologist is that you refuse to condemn Beijing over the Tiananmen Square Massacre?

I understand protesting workers were executed without trial while student leaders following a kowtow court were executed for protesting at Tiananmen.

see http://www.visualartistsguild.info/VAG/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=191&Itemid=1

I didn't expect a humanitarian response from you Jimmy.

From speechers late last night the Hong Kong government is apparently considering student pro-democracy demands - very slowly.

The government is playing for time, hoping that most (now bored, tired) protesters will go home. The government is also encouraging community pressure (older people) to point out the economic damage the protesters are doing to HK and to workers less privileged than the average student leader.

There are widening disagreements on tactics between students who would sit down and block more highways and those with less provocative ideas in mind.

The hard-core of protesters remaining will eventually be arrested by police - possibly with violence - to the delight of the world media. Never before have so many Western journalists been despatched to expensive Hong Kong for so little copy.

Pete

Looks like the student protester's smartphones are being tapped by China's Ministry of State Security (MSS) working with PLA-IT in the PLA Hong Kong Garrison.

MSS is exploiting protesters new reliance on downloads of the FireChat smartphone app - malware is part of the download. The malware gives MSS access to the address book, communication logs and other private data stored on the student's phone. The malware also allows MSS to take secret individual and crowd photos using the phone camera of the compromised smartphones.

So even student's not actually arrested at the demo may be rounded up days or weeks after. No-one needs to "talk" or inform on each other. The phones are revealing it all automatically.

For some reason Snowden did not talk about what China's NSA (which is PLA-IT) does when he was a guest of it in Hong Kong...

Full story see http://intelnews.org/2014/10/03/01-1567/