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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel and Palestine > Comments

Israel and Palestine : Comments

By Don Aitkin, published 1/8/2014

I do not have much sympathy for people who place rocket bases in housing areas, though I recognise that Hamas sees its own cause as just.

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Don,

"... I am not sitting as a judge, but I think you may be."

Er....

"The human in me wonders at the morality of the men who launch their rockets from the neighbourhoods of schools and hospitals. The outcome in time must be death and destruction to one's own people. Hamas believes that 'the Zionist entity' (one doesn't refer to the name of the state because that gives it respectability) must be destroyed.

The human in me says that such people have a twisted morality."

That "is" a judgement.
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 9 August 2014 10:16:23 AM
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Jet,

"... You sound like ignorant children."

Well, der....

That was precisely the point I was trying to make regarding LEGO's former post.
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 9 August 2014 10:19:19 AM
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Poirot,

I would agree with you that it is hard not to judge when analysing, and that was the point of my distinguishing between the 'human' and the 'historian'.
Posted by Don Aitkin, Saturday, 9 August 2014 10:24:46 AM
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Dear Don,

Again with respect I'm having a little difficulty distinguishing your reasoning from the mantra, 'Hamas bad', 'Hamas immoral', 'Hamas to blame', 'Israel has little choice', 'Israel made the desert bloom'.

To starkly state that “11,000 rockets have been fired into Israel since 2001” is part of that mantra. It paints a picture of Israel suffering thousands of rockets before occasionally striking back with ground assaults.

But the conflict has always been far more tit for tat. As illustrated in the two years before Operation Cast Lead Israel fired nearly six times as many artillery rounds into Gaza than were returned in rocket fire. This is leaving aside the missile strikes from aircraft and helicopters plus the direct incursions across the border by the IDF.

I would excuse your mantra coming from some bloke I met at the pub whose exposure to the narrative of the conflict was limited to mainstream media. It is hard to expect him to have the time nor the inclination to appraise himself more fully of the facts. But you sir have no such excuse. As a university lecturer surely an inquiring mind is part of the job description.

Cont...
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 9 August 2014 12:54:06 PM
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Cont...

As to my morality being different to yours perhaps it is.

For instance why shouldn't we consider the tunnels dug by Hamas to be as legitimate as Israel using Gazan airspace to deliver high explosives. Both give access to the other's territory. In fact I will go further, the attack through tunnels by Hamas of an Israeli military post shown below must have required enormous bravery. To crawl though a narrow hole for hundreds of meters, knowing full well these tunnels were being systematically destroyed so the risk of suffocating alive was very real, then emerge an make your way in the open to a walled military post and attack it knowing how quickly and effectively the IDF can respond would have taken nerves of steel.
http://youtu.be/TktroI1S9s8

Compare that to the Israeli pilots who invade the airpace over Gaza to drop high explosive bombs on the homes and families of Hamas officials with the comforting knowledge that there is nothing in the Hamas arsenal capable of harming them in any way.

Putting aside the risk to the fighters is one method of warfare more or less moral than the other? I would be keen to hear your view.

Finally here the latest footage of the IDF striking 'terror' missile sites. You tell me how many you see next to 'neighbourhoods of schools and hospitals'. I am not saying it never happens but it is hardly the default location you make it out to be.
http://youtu.be/BLMynOHtzlY
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 9 August 2014 12:55:51 PM
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Here's one that Steeleredux missed

This is Hamas' version:

" 'Hamas' declares the death of the former name of the spokesman Ayman Taha in Israeli shelling AUG 7, 2014
Gaza / Mustafa Haboush / Alonadol announced that the Islamic Resistance Movement 'Hamas' in the death of the former name of the spokesman Ayman Taha, of wounds sustained a few days ago, a result of Israeli shelling targeted an apartment which was located where the city of Gaza"
http://www.raialyoum.com/?p=133214

ANOTHER NOBLE MARTYR?

But this is what really happened as told by Alquds.com (another Palestian source BASED OUT OF JERUSALEM rather than GAZA --which is why it is able to challenge the official Hamas line)

"RAMALLAH special Jerusalemdot com confirmed private sources, it was the execution of the former leader of Hamas, Ayman Taha, 3 days ago, where his body now resides in the compound of Shifa Hospital.

The sources said, that Taha was executed by several bullets in the head and chest, where his body was dumped in the yard of "healing" and stayed for an hour without approaching one of them, before the return of other gunmen and pulled without knowing why.

Hamas has banned the publication of the news of the arrival of the corpse on Tuesday, but allowed that day after the body was re-Taha for 'healing' at three in the afternoon.

Months before the oldest Hamas security on the arrest of the former leader, 'Taha' and detained an unknown location, where he was under investigation.

Ayman Taha, accused of having ties with Arab intelligence services, as well as for the establishment of investment projects of its own under the name of the movement Hmas. and exploited position in addition to financial embezzlement led to inflated his wealth without justification.

Hamas accuses him and also to hold contacts with Palestinian figures on the runner with great movement."

http://www.alquds.com/news/article/view/id/518166

NO. ANOTHER VICTIM OF A HAMAS DEATH SQUAD!

Google will translate it to English if it pops-up in an Arabic
Posted by SPQR, Saturday, 9 August 2014 2:36:00 PM
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