Thanks Greg for some truth for a change. The real reason the West wants to attack Russia is the formation of the BRICS Nations and heaven forbid their own bank that will eventually rival our Central Bankers.These bankers have destroyed our economies with money printing created as debt which continues to enslave us.

Putin was part of their New World Order but now has jumped ship for freedom.

This is by far the most comprehensive account I have yet read of what really happened to Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. The link to The Malaysian Airline MH17 Crash: Sixteen Central Issues Which Cannot be Ignored by Julie Lévesque makes for compelling reading.
And I second Arjay's comment about sanctions being the main game as far as the West is concerned. For the West, it is imperative that Russia is impoverished, or at least financially crippled, before the new BRICS bank can get up and running. And lest we think it is only Russia that is in the cross-hairs of destabilisation, does anyone else find it suspiciously opportune that just yesterday an incident in China's Xinjiang Province involving the local Uighurs blew up.
Further to the role of the Ukraine Air Force in the war against the Donbas separatists, a video from The Saker website (which I can no longer find - sorry) has a separatist telling how Ukraine jets had been flying over disputed territory by hiding in the slip stream of commercial airliners, dropping down to loose their bombs, and scooting back up to regain cover. Plausible, and one reason why the separatists could have accidentally shot down the Malaysian airliner.
But I still think in the end, if we ever get that far, we will find that it was an air-to-air missile, and not a ground-to-air one, that brought the airliner down.
Another question to consider is why is it proving so difficult to get the independent police on the ground at the crash site. Could it be that the Ukrainian forces are pushing for control of this area prior to the observers being able to gather any forensic evidence because they know that that evidence will put the lie to their claim that Russia did it?

Greg, either enlist the services of a subeditor or re-read and critically edit your own work and the large number of typos mark you as an amateur.

Cut out some of the asides and jargon, then reduce the number of adverbs and adjectives to a minimum and your otherwise excellent work will become readable and reach a wider audience.

Congratulations Gregory.

"Along with being an tireless campaigner against official corruption" you win the Order of Lenin for this unreadable 2,900 word damp-squid.

I understand the film based on this article will be a sure runner-up at the Dapto Film Festival.

You'll have a packed audience of all 9 of the special loonies on OLO. Two, so far, are above.

Good luck with the self-published book on Amazon. Maybe bribe capitalist Amazon extra for placement in the Curious but Unread section.

Yes, true!
But the response then and now, is entirely different!
No great power, or or seriously armed regional dissidents, prevented the Iranian bodies being found, and returned to grieving relatives, all of who, were at least offered some compensation and a mia culpa/sincere apologies, from/by the US!
Were that we could have just that much real show of real remorse from the callous and indifferent Russians, who created this disaster, with their stage managed attempted annexation of another nation's sovereign territory!
And in so doing, need to remain cognoscenti, what's good for the goose is good for the gander!
Rhrosty.

Oh Greg has the revelation that all mankind is open to corruption and the US is no different. Thank God though that up until recent times the inclusion of biblical principles has made US a superpower and a country where multitudes wanted to live. Now that the secularist have infiltrated all institutions corruption has increased dramatically and the country is stuffed. I doubt though it has reached the corruption levels of the likes of Hamas or the United Nations.

Greg says: “In my view, there is not a wasted syllable in any of Roberts' op-ed pieces”. What a shame the same cannot be said for Greg Maybury. His writing is pompous, verbose and cliché-riddled, but at least I suppose it complements the loopy and tortuous quality of his conspiracy theories.

Well said Rhian

But seriously now, Greg's article exhibits a certain effort, if not aptitude, for Spelling and Grammar. Admittedly the first 3 words are beyond reproach, however things go downhill after that.

Greg's "Along with being an tireless campaigner" shows an acuity only eclipsed by an intellectually challenged numbat.

I'm confident Greg is "an tireless" in all things.

Without doubt Greg's article as a film script would be a veritable shoe-in for the Desperately Needs Encouragement little stamp at the Whakatane* Film Festival.

* Only exceptional people like the Kiwis pronounce "Wh" with a "fu".

Pete

halduell

I think the link you are referring to is this one - if not, it's in the same ball park. Published on YouTube in JUNE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE#t=78

The whole video is worth watching but the important section regarding this topic starts at about 1.12.

@Killarney
Yup. That's the one. Thanks

Thanks Killarney and holdyours

Best piece of Russian plausible denial I've seen all day.

Like the Russian rapist said to the girl "You asked for it".

Pete

Dr Paul Craig Roberts was the assistant secretary to the US Treasury during the Reagan years and has not been bought.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/28/war-coming-paul-craig-roberts/

The leaders of our West have the reached the lowest ebb of depravity in all our history. They are on the verge of self destruction and with it all humanity.

Google gave this translation of the title and subtitle of the article I found in http://www.mk.ru/politics/2014/07/25/ukraina-zavela-ugolovnye-dela-na-zhirinovskogo-i-zyuganova-za-finansirovanie-separatizma.html (and also on the official site of the Izvestia, but I lost the link):

Zhirinovsky and Zyuganov became defendants in criminal proceedings in Ukraine as "sponsors of terrorism"
They are accused of "finance actions aimed at changing the boundaries of the territory and the state border"

This, of course, does not absolve Putin from being actively involved in what is happening in Eastern Ukraine, but to me - an absolute ignorant as far as international law is concerned - it suggests that even Ukraine officially admits, that there has been an involvement from Russian nationalist sources that Putin has no control over. (Zhirinovsky is a Russian nationalist demagogue, leader of the extremist “LD party of Russia”, and Zyuganov is the First Secretary of the Communists Party.)

(See also http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16537#289010 for Putin’s official reaction to MH17. It is only today - almost a fortnigfht after the disaster, that the Ukrainians stopped bombing the region for a few hours so that the Dutch investigators could access the site).

I have not seen any reference to these “criminal proceedings” by Ukrainian authorities in Western media, especially an explanation that would refute my interpretation of this fact.

Greg,

A good sub-editor would have really helped your piece but that doesn't detract from its central truth.

I think the Russians have many reasons to be aggrieved with the West. I have just completed the trans-Siberian and in every small town and village across that vast country there are reminders of the enormous suffering they have endured through foreign invasions over the centuries.

Events following the fall of communism have given the Russians little reason to change their views. We guaranteed the Russians that if they allowed their satellite states to leave the USSR they would not be part of the EU and certainly not part of NATO. In fact, I think Gorbachov originally wanted a unified Germany to leave NATO and remain demilitarised. Twenty-five years later, the EU has pushed right up to Russian borders, NATO has pushed eastwards into Poland and was threatening to expand into the Ukraine. The US even attempted to put strategic missiles in the Czech Republic and Poland. Why should they believe a word we say? Our attitude was basically, you lost the cold war so we will do what we want.

In the Ukraine, the West supported the overthrow of a democratically elected government. What happened to all our talk of spreading democracy? One corrupt government fell and another corrupt oligarchy took its place, John Kerry promptly arrived offering the 'new government' aid. I said to Russian friends, Scotland has a referendum on leaving the UK coming up in September. Maybe Russia should send Lavrov to offer them aid if they leave the UK. See if the West likes its own medicine.

We and our leaders sit back and watch as hundreds of Palestinian children are killed. US made jets, warships and artillery bombard one of the most densely populated areas on Earth killing over a thousand civilians. A land assault by one of the world's most well-equipped and well trained armies rumbles into the tightly packed, poverty stricken ghettos in the West Bank and Gaza killing indescriminately. And what do we do?

We put sanctions on Russia.

What a joke. Apparently, as Abbott says, 'Israel has a right to defend itself'. They call that defence.

How can we accept so many Palestinians are slaughtered like caged animals but then make Russia 'accountable' for separatists in eastern Ukraine. How is Russia responsible for its weapons but the US not?

Who could not look into the faces of those three beautiful children lost in the MH17 tragedy and not feel deeply moved? There are no words to express the loss their parents must feel. So imagine how it would feel to be a Palestinian parent who loses their children while playing on a beach. There is no sanctions, no outrage. No geopolitical manovering. For Palestinians parents there are words to describe their suffering, their despair:Israel has a right to defend itself.

That is how Russia sees the West.

Dane

You are barking up the right tree in the sense that Vladimir Putin is the democratic president all Russians had to have.

Putin will bestow on Ukraine a special love that his formative years in the KGB inculcated.

As I assume you are a typical product of lefty Uni life I understand Putin's special Russian style could improve your campus http://youtu.be/K9g36QB5uos

Useful idiots need their Mussolini.

Pete, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were found guilty of war crimes in 2012 at the Malaysian War Crimes Tribunal prosecuted by Prof Francis Boyle. It may also explain why Malaysian Airlines are being selected for terrorist attacks.

I see no evidence of war crimes by Vladmir Putin.

Halduell

‘But I still think in the end, if we ever get that far, we will find that it was an air-to-air missile, and not a ground-to-air one, that brought the airliner down.’

Don’t know if you’ve seen this. If it’s authentic (and I always try to maintain scepticism about what I see on the internet), then there is little doubt the plane was hit by air-to-air missile fire.

http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf

http://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2014/shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/

Arjay

Out of hundreds of commercial airlines in operation globally, the probability of the same airline incurring two major losses with weeks, both in highly suspicious circumstances, both with political overtones, and both the exact same plane model, is stretching the bounds of credibility.

Malaysia is a Muslim country. Unlike Indonesia, which has been in bed with the US-led West since 1966, Malaysia has been an outspoken critic. Taken in the context of the US long-term geostrategic plan to circle China, and the need to keep all SE Asian countries firmly within the US orbit, there are more than a few dots here to be joined

Yes Killarney, finally OLO is printing some truth. Does Graham sense the tide is turning ? Good on Malcolm Fraser for also revealing the truth.I did not like him as PM but now see this man has principles unlike our present pollies.

If we don't confront these evil psychopaths they will take us to war with Russia and China. The BRICS Nations don't need war since they can win the peace and give this planet real prosperity.

Read 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' by John Perkins. The Banking Military Industrial Complex offer poor countries debt they cannot refuse or their leaders get assassinated or they cannot get Western technology or be allowed to trade with us. They work on corruption to destroy nations from within and totally enslave them in debt. If that does not work as with Gaddafi, they just invade you country and kill you.

The West has become the Evil Empire whose leaders want to reduce the planet's population by 90%.Our leaders here just fall in line with whatever London and Washington wants and will even let we the people be sacrificed for their ultimate goal of a one world Govt run by corporate fascism. http://www.globalresearch.ca/

Greg Maybury must aspire to be another John Pilger, if his article is representative of his worldview. His USA bashing uses the usual formula of massaging the truth using misrepresentations, exaggerations, half truths, and worse.

Russian backed separatists shoot down a civilian airliner in a war zone and Greg Maybury uses it to find a perspective to blast the USA. He then rather breathtakingly claims that the USA is using the incident to promote it's own views.

Anyone who's brain is not disconnected from reality by socialist group think, can discern that Greg Maybury is doing exactly the same thing while claiming that the USA actions are reprehensible. The only thing that Greg got right, is that much of the hysterical reaction in the west is being fuelled by the "corporate" (read Murdoch type) media. Somehow, this equates with official US policy. That the US administration is belatedly reacting to the media criticism of its non response is claimed by David to confirm his worldview that the US government is once again doing something conspiritorial.

Greg uses the western media's hysterical response to hurl a brickbat at the western free press which he claims is biased and unreliable. The only problem with that thinking,is that almost the entire population of every western country has a lot more faith in the veracity of "corporate" news than they do in the rantings of the left wing free enterprise press, as their continuing declining sales have proven conclusively.

Greg's claim that the Dutch are intrinsically different to British and Americans as evidenced by their reaction to the tragedy, is racist and could be actionable under 18C. Careful Greg. Such a racist conclusion could see you expelled from the social climbing socialist set, for conduct unbecoming an ideological zealot.

Next Greg cl;ai8ms that the yanks and even Tony Abbot are talking like "Imperial" leaders. That's funny, I thought that the only "imperial" actions taking place in the Ukraine was the re establishment of the Russian Empire which is something that completely escaped Greg's eagle eye.

to be continued

continued

Greg then uses MH-17 to bash the USA on it's arming of insurgent groups. Reality check, Greg. For all of it's history, the Soviet Union (which is a euphemism for "Russian empire") armed every terrorist group in the world (including the IRA) that would cause trouble in the west. This nuclear armed evil empire was destroyed when the USA used exactly the same tactics on the Sovs, as they had been using on us. You may think that is reprehensible, but there are an awful lot of Poles, Germans, Czechs, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Romanians and yes, even Ukrainians who would consider your worldview to be incomprehensible.

Greg equates he US shooting down of a commercial jet in the Gulf with the MH-17 disaster without bothering to point out the differences. The US navy was involved in convoy escort work and had already suffered 28 dead as a result of an Iraqi Exocet strike on the US frigate Stark. The Iranian jet was flying in a war zone and had idiotically switched off it's transponder, and had engaged in enhanced stupidity by refusing to identify itself on the radio when challenged by the USS Vincennes. The USA's refusal to apologise was because it was primarily the Iranians own fault, and why should the USA apologise to a renegade regime that put US diplomatic staff through mock executions?

LEGO says Russia has an Empire ? Outside Russia they have 9 military bases and most of those are in the former Soviet Union. The USA has 800 + military bases outside their country with 40 alone surrounding Iran. Try telling some truth for a change LEGO.

I don't know how many US bases there are in Australia, Arjay, and I just don't care. The USA has a lot of friends who welcome them and their bases, the Russians can't say the same thing.

Keep it up, you are the best argument us normal people have.

Evidence is now compelling:

There was probably no surface to air missile fired. No evidence provided thus far - no eyewitness accounts or radar reports of seeing missile fired..

The fuselage around cockpit of MH17 is riddled with high calibre machine gun bullet holes. The bullet holes are both entry and exit! They targeted the pilot area in particular.

The tweets by Spanish air traffic controller in Kiev (who has since been disappeared) and the radar data provided by Russia and eyewitness reports on BBC news (later removed by BBC) show Ukrainian fighter jets tailing MH17.

Kiev regime (or at least just the Svoboda Nazi party controlled Interior Ministry) ordered the shoot down of a passenger plane and it should've landed in the area where several thousand Ukrainian army soldiers are trapped between the rebels and the Russian border - thus ceasing hostilities and allowing for the army to be released.

Also to gain political propaganda advantage against the rebels and blame them and Russia.

The plan went partly wrong when the plane banked to the east and flew at right angle to its flight path for 14km before being hit second time and downed into rebel (not trapped Ukrainian army) territory.

So possible scenario is an air-to-air missile from one Ukrainian fighter jet hit right wing, pilots kept plane aloft and turned to left, single fighter jet sped up and strafed cockpit from both right and left sides or two jet fighters sped up and strafed cockpit from both sides.

What is scary is that the Western media and governments all fell for this (or did Washington say they all had to fall for this?)

See:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/evidence-now-conclusive-2-ukrainian-government-su-25-fighter-jets-shoot-malaysian-airliner-buk-missile-ground-shot-involved.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-was-behind-the-downing-of-mh17-osce-monitor-mentions-machine-gun-bullet-holes-in-mh17-no-evidence-of-missile/5394693

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/03/flight-17-shoot-down-scenario-shifts/

See if this link works - the machine gun of the Ukrainian fighter jet looks to have honed in right on the pilot from left side - which would go with catching up to it as it turned to the left and lost altitude and speed after the first hit by a possible air-to-air missile.

Go to - https://twitter.com/EzraBraam

If this doesn't work go via link in longer article and then hover over picture and click magnify - http://www.opednews.com/articles/Evidence-2-Ukrainian-Gove-by-Eric-Zuesse-Activism-Anti-War_Impeachment_Obama-Administration_President-Barack-Obama-POTUS-140803-579.html

One article (very informative despite the tortured English) and 27 comments, oodles of geopolitics and geostrategy (the language of colonialism), the usual bogan talk about "lefties", without even a nod of recognition of the rights of the PEOPLE who actually live there, which is what are being violated by the deadly military assault on so-called "separatists", mounted by a Nazi-infested coup regime in Kiev.

Sure, anything that sheds light on who really murdered the people on board MH17 is very relevant (unlike all that crap about geostrategy).

The people of the captive nations in Crimea and eastern Ukraine have every right to self-determination without their struggle for it being trumped by referring to them as "separatists" or pro-Russian or otherwise in terms designed by and for colonial overlords. This right is recognised by international law - the very first article in the UN Declaration of Human Rights. Rights decent people fought and died for in their thousands. Read about it at http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx .

The name of the document setting out the right of peoples to self-determination is the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, not the UN Declaration of Human Rights. It was adopted by the UN under Article 49 of the UN Charter. It remains international law and an achievement of the defeat of the Axis attempts to enslave the world.

To Greg4peace.

Since you are totally ignorant of military armaments, I will explain to you why your opinion is potty.

Fighter jets do not use machine guns. They use 20mm, 23mm, 25mm and 30mm fast firing cannons. Such weapons blow 300mm to 1 metre holes in their targets, or blow chunks off them.

The cannon that Russian aircraft use are 23mm. Destroying a large aircraft like a 767 with a cannon would be a strange weapon to pick. A cannon would take time to blow enough bits off the airliner to cause it to go out of control, and most of the aircraft would land in one piece. It would also give the pilot time to send out a mayday. A missile would be the way to go. That's what that Russian fighter used to down Korean airliners KAL 007 over the Kamchatcka Peninsular. He even identified it to his ground controller as an off course civilian airliner "with passengers sitting in their seats" before he launched his missile.

Whatever destroyed the airliner blew it to bits and the planes came down in bits all over the landscape. The pilot had no time to call a mayday because the plane was destroyed instantly.

Get a grip.

LEGO,

My sloppy terminology, I'm not a military man - the "machine gun" holes are reported as consistent with 300mm cannon rounds - consistent they say with the Su-25 Ukrainian fighter jets. I didn't know proper term was "cannon" for such large bullets.

READ THE FULL ARTICLES AT ABOVE LINKS.

TODAY'S UPDATED LINK GOES FURTHER - http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidence-is-now-conclusive-two-ukrainian-government-fighter-jets-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-mh17-it-was-not-a-buk-surface-to-air-missile/5394814

EVIDENCE IS COMPELLING THAT KIEV FIGHTER JETS SHOT DOWN MH17 - WHY DO YOU THINK OUR WESTERN MEDIA AND LEADERS HAVE GONE SO QUIET ON IT IN RECENT DAYS?

Greg4peace.

Su-25's are an armoured, subsonic ground attack aircraft designed to fly at very low levels. They are not high altitude interceptors. Interceptors are streamlined, high speed fighters designed to fly at high altitudes around mach 2 or better. Whoever told you this bullshiit did not have a clue.

I hope you have learned something from this. You are being lied to, with lies that are so easily disproved that it makes you look foolish for propagating them. Get angry about that. Get angry with the people who think that you are so stupid that you will accept any crap they tell you.

I used to be a trendy lefty like yourself but I grew out of it. I realised that I was being lied to and treated like a fool.

Read this http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/03/flight-17-shoot-down-scenario-shifts/ The US govt has been caught repeatedly lying re Ukraine and now MH17.

See this - suppressed and totally misreported in The West - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yflMScowPfk That was when I realised who is lying most!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yflMScowPfk (cut and paste to browser if need)

Oh spare me, Greg4peace. You are seriously proposing that the Russian rebels did not shoot down MH-17 because it can not be proven they did? It is a bit hard to prove they did it when they are rebels running around doing everything they can to hide the evidence and they are pointing guns in the faces of the investigators.

You don't have to be a Mensa from the local Audobon society to figure out who done it. even a Densa like you should be able to figure it out. Only a few weeks ago a large 4 engine Ilyushin cargo jet was shot down over Ukrainian held territory killing a Ukrainian general. That means that whoever shot it down had a pretty damned big SAM missile to do it.

Could I give you a tip?

Whenever something bad happens and you have to choose between some convoluted conspiracy theory, and a simple stuff up, smart money is on the stuff up, every time.

Some idiot programmed MH-17 to fly over a war zone where SAMs were flying about, in the same way that Korean Airlines KAL 007 was mistakenly programmed to fly over the highly defended and very sensitive Russian Kamchatka peninsular. Or that New Zealand passenger aircraft that was mistakenly was programmed to fly into a cloud covered mountain in Antarctica.

On the other side, the rebels saw MH-17 flying from the Ukraine and the trigger happy idiots shot one off before they checked the IFF, or bothered to read the transponder information which would have told them it was a commercial airliner.