Lots of good posts here, apart from Andras Smith, who hasn't denied that he is a migration agent and thus has a financial interest in this debate. Perhaps he should look at the link to T. Willard Fair's testimony to the US Congress in my previous post and explain why a Black man, prominent in the civil rights movement, would serve on the board of an organization founded by the very John Tanton that Andras is trying to demonise as a White supremacist. Maybe because very high immigration really is bad for Black Americans?

Yuyutsu, you are correct that there are people on both the Left and the Right who understand that freedom is one of the main issues here. Perhaps you would like this quote from Isaac Asimov, the chemist who became a famous science fiction and popular science writer:

Isaac Asimov said that democracy cannot survive overpopulation, “It's going to destroy it all. I use what I call my bathroom metaphor. If two people live in an apartment, and there are two bathrooms, then both have what I call freedom of the bathroom, go to the bathroom any time you want, and stay as long as you want to for whatever you need. And this to my way is ideal. And everyone believes in the freedom of the bathroom. It should be right there in the Constitution.

“But if you have 20 people in the apartment and two bathrooms, no matter how much every person believes in freedom of the bathroom, there is no such thing. You have to set up, you have to set up times for each person, you have to bang at the door, aren't you through yet, and so on. And in the same way, democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people onto the world, the value of life not only declines, but it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies."

Divergence,
How could we possibly make that clear to the Lefties ? Do you think they'll ever understand or will we have to contend with the stupidity forever ?

SPA are predictable, rather than showing empirical evidence for their 'scientific' claims or beliefs, they attack and smear anyone who diasgrees. Not surprisingly this is the same behaviour of religious cults, and John Tanton's network, as investigated by Southern Poverty Legal Center (much expertise re. the KKK) ADL Anti Defamation League (dealing with anti semitism) etc..

The (high) population growth and (runaway) immigration memes and themes are achieved or appear plausible by selective information, rubbery data and seguing definitions.

By ignoring change in population definition in 2006, focusing upon now, spikes in data, and making no distinction beween temporary and permanent residents with the former represented by international students, 2nd year working holiday visa makers, 457 work visas, dependents etc.., not new permanent immigrants. These same temps stay 12/16+ months are counted under the net overseas migration NOM data then described by media as 'immigrants' suggesting they are all permanent...... which they are not, and only a minority go onto permanent under the migration program caps.

This is the media strategy in action, Bob Birrell produces research for his media ciphers which shows 'immigrants' in a negative light then media transmit the negative conclusion, 'dog whistling'.

This is a broad church including Tim Colebatch at Fairfax, Andrew Bolt and John Manasauskas at News Corp, current affairs tv, ABC, Alan Jones, more recently Business Spectator and Leith van Onselen at Macrobusiness (when criticised by readers they stopped quoting Birrell, and reverted to his sometimes collaborator Katherine Betts of Swinburne University) see the last sentence 'dog whistle' on this article http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/07/temporary-immigration-increases-some-more/

Australia and much of the world are facing stalling growth in permanent population, but worst is the qualitative aspect, far more older people to be supported by younger generation, whilst the latter's growth has stabilised, internationally too. The temporary residents who contribute to Australia's economy and society could be called 'churnover' who have no access to benefits, pensions, Medicare etc. are a net benefit to Australia, though it's not a popular idea nowadays.

Divergence is one of the worst offenders re spurious claims. Last year approx 1 Sept, Divergence tirelessly trotted out the same old racist stuff on one of my articles and used the Productivity Commission as a source. It must have been a surprise when one of the authors of the PC reported posted this:

“As a senior demographer in the APS, I have read most of King's articles and while he seems abrasive, his data and general thrust is about right. His article on 'first world' global population trends was correct. I have no issue with using a biological model but the tendency is to create instrumentalist policies through reductionism…

"Much of the SPP's data is not data but media claims or subjective opinions on climate change or fairly wild extrapolations about the ramifications of climate change...

"Australia's population has risen in the last ten years through temporary immigration and more recently, with international students being counted as 'residents'. That created some very wild news stories. I am sure you knew that…

"I worked on the 2010 PC report or rather, had some input. The terms of reference were fairly narrow and vague. We were NOT trying to determine whether migrants added economic value. We know from baseline studies both here and in the US, that educated migrants add value to national productivity. We don’t know how much.

"The idea was NOT to use the report as a stick. It's simply a case that we can't measure some aspects of behavioural life or, in an instrumentalist way, wrap a ruler around a person's economic worth. I believe neither of us would want that anyway...

"I would counsel you to be circumspect about using government reports in a wholly instrumental way, or rather, 'picking the eyes out of them' for political ends. The reason is that these reports reflect a specific type of methodology and broad brush interpretations are not always wise or accurate.

Malcolm 'Paddy' King,
And how much are you people getting paid from our tax Dollars for such vaguish reporting ?
Most of us here could tell you all that by mere educated guessing for nothing.
Why use illogical tactics at great expense when you can have logic for next to nothing ?
Talk about squandering taxpayers Dollars !

Andras Smith

By bringing in more people, you simply dilute the national wealth, and any tax revenue from such things as the mining boom simply has to be spread amongst more people.

Some people think more people = more wealth.

But if the population becomes too great, any increase in national wealth has minimal benefits for the average person, as the national wealth has to be spread so thinly.

So if we continue to increase the population (by doubling it in 40 years as is projected), and there is another mining boom similar to what we have had, expect to see little or no benefits coming your way.

There are peaks and troughs, but due to the archaic and abysmal thinking of consecutive governments, they brought in more people during the peak from the mining boom, and we now have overpopulation during the trough, (and that trough is destined to be a long one).

Throughout of course, the natural environment takes more and more hits.