Neoconservatism is essentially a modern Jewish version of Machiavelli’s political strategy. What characterizes the neoconservative movement is therefore not as much Judaism as a religious tradition, but rather Judaism as a political project, i.e. Zionism, by Machiavellian means. Note that, in an article in the Jewish World Review on June 7th, 1999, the neoconservative Michael Ledeen defends the thesis that Machiavelli was a crypto-Jew, as were at the time thousands of families nominally converted to Catholicism under threat of expulsion of death. “Listen to his political philosophy, and you will hear the Jewish music”, wrote Ledeen, citing in particular Machiavelli’s contempt for the nonviolent ethics of Jesus and his admiration for the pragmatism of Moses, who was able to kill countless men in the interests of enforcing his new law.

Obviously, if Zionism is synonymous with patriotism in Israel, it cannot be an acceptable label in American politics, where it would mean loyalty to a foreign power. This is why the neoconservatives do not represent themselves as Zionists on the American scene. Yet they do not hide it all together either. Elliott Abrams, Deputy National Security Adviser in the administration of Bush’s son, wrote in his book Faith or Fear (1997): “Outside the land of Israel, there can be no doubt that Jews, faithful to the covenant between God and Abraham, are to stand apart from the nation in which they live. It is the very nature of being Jewish to be apart — except in Israel — from the rest of the population”. It is hard to come with a better definition of Zionism, the corollary of which is the apartheid practiced against non-Jewish peoples in Palestine, http://www.voltairenet.org/article178638.html http://www.m-hikari.com/mccartin-2.pdf

WOW! Wonders will never cease, a readable post from OUG (first of his posts, of any length, that I've read).

Yes, Is Mise, but it's a pity that it was irrelevant to the discussion here.

However, it does touch on the different philosophies across the Middle East - the Jewish people and the Israeli state focussing on an exclusionist identity, one which proclaims 'leave us alone', while ISIS and al-Qai'da focus on an 'inclusionary' vision, of conversion-by-sword (or AK-47), even of other Muslims, a vision that will have no end.

It's ironic that today is the centenary of the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and his wife. In the next few weeks, we may witness the beginnings of a bloodbath across the Middle East (and beyond) which might parallel the losses of the First World War.

Joe

Hi One Under God

I to am very impressed with your use of correct paragraphing and only one link.

Cross cultural studies (historical and modern) are very important. The Jews are, of course, blamed for anything a writer can dream up, from Communism to Capitalism and now Machiavellianism. The contribution of Jewish people to Western politics, arts and sciences is out of all proportion to their numbers. This naturally causes resentment particularly from white-trash like Hitler but also Russians like Stalin and even Russia's current leadership.

I hope you keep up the paragraph, minimal links style One Under God.

Regards

Pete

Hi Joe Loudmouth

Re: "Jewish people and the Israeli state focussing on an exclusionist identity, one which proclaims 'leave us alone'"

"leave us alone"" might forget Israel's heavy reliance on ongoing Western political and military support. Financial support comes not only from the Jewish diaspora but from Governments, including the US Government to the tune of $Billions a year.

The German Government has provided massive subsidies to Israel through the the free and reduced price submarine program. Germany has delivered the best conventional submarines in the world to Israel for an average 50% discount for decades. Australia is looking very seriously at the German made HDW submarine series - including the HDW Dolphin submarine that Germany tailor makes for Israel.

This German subsidy policy is openly seen as Reparations for the Holocaust and for more recent German deals with Israel's enemies (which included Iraq). In so doing Germany accepts responsibility.

Regards

Pete

Hi Pete,

I was thinking in terms of the evangelical-exterminatory ideologies of ISIS and al-Qa'ida and Wahabism, indeed of Islam proper, versus a tradition of a self-contained group which wasn't particularly interested in converting anybody to its religion, in fact had in-built mechanisms to minimise that, such as in-marriage. I hadn't thought of Jews as offering outsiders the option of conversion or death; they had had enough of that option themselves over the centuries.

In that context, and somewhat off-topic, one would have thought that Germany did actually owe Israel, as the refuge of many Jewish people, something of a debt, submarines included.

Frankly, I found OUG last contribution faintly anti-Semitic and straying well off-topic, but I'm sure he didn't mean it that way.

Perhaps we can stick to topic - there's plenty of it available :)

For example, what might happen if and when ISIS slaughters the semi-trained Shia militias surging north from Baghdad ? Will the US eventually have to co-ordinate its responses with Iran and Assad ? And vice versa ?

And will Saudi Arabia stand idly by, pretending not to be supporting the terrorists ?

And when will news agencies, even The Australian, start to unambiguously call the terrorists terrorists ?

Joe