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The Forum > Article Comments > We are all entitled to human rights > Comments

We are all entitled to human rights : Comments

By Sharon Beder, published 6/6/2014

The need to balance the budget is not a legitimate reason to undercut human rights.

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...The "Society of Entitlement" sings loudly for justice; the marquess of justice I hear here, but alas only INjustice appear:

...In a world brimmed with hunger and fear! Sing the hymn loudly "No justice, no justice" sing it clear; but as always and ever, a dirge for deaf ear!
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 6 June 2014 8:25:52 AM
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Free health and education don't exist. These services are paid for by the taxpayer. In the case of higher education half of the costs are permenantly born by the taxpayer, many of whom, for various reasons, were unable to access this "right"
Today, no Australian citizen needs money to attend university. The bill doesn't become due until they are earning a reasonable wage, and in the case of women, sometimes this never happens, because they elect to work part time whilst raising children and beyond.
As for social security, in the case of the unemployed under 30's they are in no danger of losing their money if they either attend a training course or do volunteer work. Their right to taxpayers money is balanced by their obligations to actually do something in return for it.
Aged pensioners should not be complaining. I'm one, and I manage to live a reasonably comfortable life. I don't have a lot of luxuries, but then I never expected taxpayers to keep me in luxury. Or cigarettes. Or alcohol. Or poker chips. Or any of the other "wants" as opposed to "needs" in people's lives.
Posted by Big Nana, Friday, 6 June 2014 9:35:32 AM
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<<Human rights are entitlements that nations have collectively agreed>>

There your arguments end, Sharon, be they otherwise worthwhile or not.

By relying for your arguments on this non-existent entity called 'nation', or be it Santa-Claus for that matter, you have removed the discussion to fantasy-land.

Real and ordinary people were never consulted and never agreed to have their name used collectively, presuming them to be a 'nation' without consent. Whatever others agreed between them, including in the international arena, is therefore non-binding on ordinary people.

Our freedom is natural, God-given: we don't need governments to give us the pittance of 'rights' in return for the freedom they rob.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 6 June 2014 9:55:03 AM
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Without human rights, we still have child labor, slave labor, and absolute monarchs doing as they please.
People could be sent down the pits with nothing more than a candle and a pick; and an absolute plethora of far worse things.
I mean, we wouldn't even own our own bodies or retain an inherent right to say no, to the rich, powerful and privileged!
And anyone who knows about the highland clearances, and the story of the black and tans, knows what I mean!
We have signed international covenants, that guarantee various human rights!
Yet most of our, I believe, relatively worthless self serving pollies, just don't want us to have them incorporated as a bill of irrevocable rights.
If you don't believe that too many are inherently self indulgent and little else,, just look at the passing parade in and out of ICAC!
We are their masters, not visa versa!
The way to reverse this patent nonsense, or "absolute monarchism", is to always put the incumbent last on the ballot paper!
Should we do that, the pollies will finally understand, that they are indeed our servants, rather than our, virtually self appointed masters, doling out privileges, almost as if this was still a penal colony!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 6 June 2014 10:21:41 AM
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Afterthought:
Balancing the budget is just not that difficult, albeit, some patently unearned undeserved entitlements would simply have to go.
Including negative gearing; tax breaks on rich super; subsidized high value private health insurance; and free health and education for millionaires; and, pensions for people who are essentially multimillionaires!
Ditto maternity leave!
When the real need is affordable child care, for the less well off!
We need people handed the onerous responsibility, of governing in our name, [all of us,] to understand the huge difference, between basic rights, and plum privileges/cronyism/ and inexcusable self indulgence!
Rhrosty
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 6 June 2014 10:36:31 AM
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Dear Rhrosty,

The highest a donkey can think is "maybe my master will not hit me today".

I don't want them as masters and I don't want them as servants - I want them all out of my life! I don't need their pieces of paper either, telling me that in their infinite grace and mercy they've granted me some "irrevocable rights".

When Diogenes was asked by Alexander the Great what he could do for him, Diogenes replied: "Would you please step aside, Sir, so your body doesn't block the warmth of the sun-rays".
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 6 June 2014 11:04:04 AM
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It would be nice if people like Sharon could do at least a little math. Yes I know such a thing is an anathema to professors of humanities, which is why we get these fool articles.

If only they could add 2+2, & look at the answer a few years down the track, the world would be a better place. Harder perhaps than right now, but less like to suffer a total collapse of the things that make it so good for us today.

Yes it is great, but already a bit too good. We have gone too far with our entitlement society, & will have to take a few steps back, lest the whole thing collapse, & we get nothing.

Surely even a professor of humanities should be able to look at Greece & Spain among others, & see our future, if we don't stop the rot now. They can't of course, which helps hasten the day of loss of more than a few educational privileges.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 6 June 2014 11:56:00 AM
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when the rights of unborn babies are heard I will take 'human ' rights seriously.
Posted by runner, Friday, 6 June 2014 3:11:59 PM
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‘morning Sharon,

Your article highlights the case for a reduction in the number of humanities academia. As the ACR grants for such mischievous post graduate studies dries up, we will see less and less of the socialized rhetoric you have just thrown out.

<< Human rights are supposed to have absolute priority over any political lobbying or economic trade-offs.>>

I guess we are “entitled” to whatever level of human rights are available in our country, given the politics and the socio-economic circumstances prevailing.

There are those in North Korea who perhaps feel the same way as you but with an arguably greater passion.

If these sentiments you express are a true reflection of your rationale, I highly recommend that you stay in the protected environment you currently enjoy, I fear the shock of the real world and its priorities might be too much for you.

Any plans for a productive career or are you happy to remain a professional student?
Posted by spindoc, Friday, 6 June 2014 3:12:29 PM
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Sharon, just an observation..... The moment you start to draw parallels between Australia and Hitler and the Nazis you lose the argument. Re read Big Nana above before any further comment ok?

The Australian budget and 'human rights'.... You drew a bow so long that it snapped.
Posted by Prompete, Friday, 6 June 2014 4:17:58 PM
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Actually, there's no need for governments at any time, to 'balance the budget'. Authoritarian politicians often use the ploy of a phoney crisis as a smokescreen to attack citizens' liberties, or to intensify the class war, the scam doesn't always work.
Posted by mac, Friday, 6 June 2014 4:27:29 PM
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As so often happens, proponents of a Declaration of Human Rights overlook the simplest realities.

"The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1948, after World War II."

That is more than sixty years ago. How has everybody fared since than, Human Rights-wise?

Burma: how does our government's action compare, in human rights terms, to Burma's military depriving the entire Burmese people of their democratically elected leader, by placing her under arrest for twenty years?

Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran etc: as a woman, how do you feel about the education system in these countries? Sixty years after their signatures on the UDHR, how closely are their goals today aligned to those they subscribed to back then, do you think?

With such devotion to the principles of the UDHR shining through in its signatories' every move, it is a foolhardy notion indeed to measure our own politicians against its tenets.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 6 June 2014 5:43:11 PM
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Yuyustu:
It's not them who grant rights but those who elect them.
We tell them with our vote, what we the great silent majority, want from government! Hopefully, occasionally!
You want them out of your life? What an interesting concept!
I believe the only country where that was all the go, at one time, was Iceland, and where every adult gathered to vote on and pass various legislation, or ideas emanating from the floor.
And I suppose if your total population was around 50,000, that might be workable, as a once or twice a year opinion poll/referendum?
I don't know if that's still the case, or if they also have adopted universal suffrage?
Personally, I long for the day, when every vote is a secret ballot, and every parliamentarian is free to follow their conscience in all things.
This would be assisted by a Computer assisted electronic voting system, conducted under a hand covering cowl, so nobody could tell who voted and or which way anyone voted.
This would then surely allow the cream of the crop to rise to the top, with the most convincing, cogent and persuasive argument, winning the day, rather than the richest, most powerful or biggest bully on the block!
Cheers, Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 6 June 2014 8:38:20 PM
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Yuyutsu,
you are absolutely correct to be frustrated and annoyed at the blatant, arrogant statement of “fact” that those so-called “human rights laws” internationally being FORCED on all nations and peoples whether they like it or not, asked for it or not,

This merely demonstrates the extreme arrogance of the western elite to think they have the right to know and judge the moral code for the entire world.
. . . oh and about Diogenes and Alexander the Great – had Diogenes not been someone of note and status [in family at least] he would never have been able to speak to the tyrant like that, nor would history have remembered his name and deeds. But I get your point.

Spindoc –
true about the North Koreans as you say, but do you realize that by the western economies gorging on the cheap Asain labour markets, we are basically responsible for the continuance of those atrocious nations oppression of the masses.

Pericles,
if the western world and other nations really were genuine in the creation of those “universal rights” post WWII then why did the west immediately after the war decide to cash in on the oppression and rights abuses in the third world to have their labour markets become cheaper and give them higher profits?

No-one in power is really serious at all and in any sense.

. . . and our nation helping one or two coloured refugees DOES NOT me good blokes and actually following those human rights laws.

I am not fooled and I doubt the non-western world is either.
Posted by Jottiikii, Friday, 6 June 2014 9:13:06 PM
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What a load of baloney, Sharon Tater. Where were all you "human rights" pukes when journalist Andrew Bolt was being prosecuted for doing his job? You people only grandstand about human rights when you can get some mileage out of it. And now we see that the "human bloody rights" pukes are backing the Nomads criminal gang over "freedom of association."

Listen baby. Get it through your overly thick cranium that nobody is going to take you seriously if you always oppose the interests of the ordinary people and instead always champion the "rights" of criminals, terrorists, and illegal immigrants.

Take your "human rights" and shove it.

The only "human right" that I recognise is the right of a democratically elected government to enact any legislation it deems necessary to create a functioning and peaceful society.
Posted by LEGO, Saturday, 7 June 2014 5:13:46 AM
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‘morning Jottiikii,

Your reply to my post was the funniest (sic) piece of contradictory verbiage I’ve read for many a year.

You said << Spindoc – true about the North Koreans as you say, but do you realize that by the western economies gorging on the cheap Asian labour markets, we are basically responsible for the continuance of those atrocious nations oppression of the masses.>>

I often marvel at those who have little “platitude and sayings” generators that string together someone else’s opinions which seem meaningful to themselves but come out the other end as meaningless rubbish. They are called “rhetoric engines”.

The problem you have is that these are not your opinions, you don’t have the intellect to generate your own otherwise you would. Therefore you don’t even understand what you have just written.

You offered a bizarre mix of Karl Marx, Max Weber with a touch of Emile Durkheim thrown in.

So let me get this right? North Korea has no human rights to speak of because they are a Marxist Totalitarian regime. This is because “we” are responsible for “”gorging ourselves on cheap Asian labor markets”, as a consequence of our now globalized trading world, this forces Marxist states like North Korea to oppress their masses?

Your Marxist quotes are directed at the non-Marxist nations who you suggest are responsible for making the Marxist State of North Korea into a failed, oppressive, totalitarian regime?

Not to mention that your adopted Marxism ideology is the cause of their failed State in the first place?

Karl Marx died in 1883, get over it or get your head examined
Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 7 June 2014 8:43:39 AM
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‘morning LEGO,

Don’t hold back, let it all that reality out.

I think there is a sort of “reformation” happening in OZ. I get the sense that more and more Australian’s are both questioning and rejecting the seemingly endless progressive pontifications with which we are lectured.

I also get the sense that there is panic from within humanities academia as they search for relevance in our changing world.

Like so many publicly funded humanities academics, they see the world through a haze of moral/value judgments. So much so that many have distanced themselves so far from reality that they have become isolated. They are faced with few choices.

They can remain as academics in the University sector however, they face the prospect of a shrinking student audience and reduced ARC public funding for humanities post graduate studies.

They can also continue to lecture the proletariat from the high moral ramparts or join an NGO and become paid activists.

Another option is to become a capitalist, join the ranks of human rights lawyers and profit from the “misery” of the oppressed.

Like you I feel strongly at the increasingly evident hypocrisy and selective amnesia portrayed by progressives in general and particularly from the moral lecturing class of humanities academia.

The great news is that the factional left wing variants that have been scurrying around the shadows of our society, have now banded together in full public view, in what they see as the “benign” banner of “progressives”.

The public can now at last question, examine, poke, prod and provoke a reaction, that reaction will always be more rhetoric and more vilification because that’s all they have left
Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 7 June 2014 9:31:00 AM
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Spindoc:
Ah to be sure to be sure, anyone who believes they need a psychiatrist, ought to have their head examined!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Saturday, 7 June 2014 10:00:01 AM
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runner wrote

"when the rights of unborn babies are heard I will take 'human ' rights seriously."

When those unborn babies start protesting in the streets and demanding their rights then they will be heard and taken seriously. Until then I prefer to concentrate on the rights of actual living people.
Posted by mikk, Saturday, 7 June 2014 11:25:57 AM
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Its called "Social Justice " In a Capitalist system there will be inequality it is the default position, as you will have rich there will be poor,Employed/unemployed etc etc ! Social Justice was created because of that reality ! We are all human beings regardless of our financial situation, as a society we all function under Capitalism.Therefore we have a moral obligation to help our fellow human beings who have been the victims of our society as best we can !
Posted by trapdiocan, Saturday, 7 June 2014 6:47:50 PM
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Dear Rhrosty,

<<It's not them who grant rights but those who elect them.>>

Suppose it's so: what difference does it make?

First, someone comes along and takes away your freedom using violence or threat of violence, then they come back and tell you: "I/we hereby bestow some of your freedoms back to you - see how generous we are?"...

That's my definition of 'rights', so I don't want any.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 7 June 2014 10:22:21 PM
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Spindoc,
I don't know about a reformation, it's just an unraveling of the "progressive" facade, the prim and proper image they project has crumbled to reveal a degenerate soul.
This is where "progressives" are at in 2014:
http://i0.wp.com/therightstuff.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/antiracist.jpg
Pornstars doing gangbang movies with illegal immigrants to highlight "human rights", middle aged female sexual predators "adopting" nineteen year old Afghan and Sri Lankan asylum seekers, Chinese brothels and ice dealers in every suburban shopping strip, that's what "Human rights" in 2014 is all about.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Sunday, 8 June 2014 8:56:25 AM
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Mornin' Spindoc.

I hope that you are right, and I have read "Twilight of the Elites" by David Flint, who agrees with you. But at the risk of prompting a sneery post from Rhosty over the subject of psychiatry, I think that the problem of human fundamentalist puritanism is a factor of human psychology, and that is never going to go away.

I have always been fascinated by people who have absolutist mindsets. They are by no means a minority, and they can inhabit every social cause, from the left to the right, and from religious to the anti religious. Vegans are classic moral fundamentalist puritans, they even think that drinking milk is "stealing from cows." Sharon seems to be similarly afflicted with a similar neuroses.

Take Sharon Tater's article.

According to Sharon, everything she wants is a "human right". "Human rights" are carved in stone. "Human rights" are absolute. They transcend the authority of a democratically elected parliament. These "human rights" include a free education and social security. If countries can't afford to implement them, that's just too bad. Implement them anyway. That's it. End of discussion.

This chick inhabits the "School of Social Inquiry" at Wollongong University. What the hell is that? Sounds like a taxpayer funded sheltered workshop for left whingers where they sit around figuring out how "the rich" (ie, taxpayers) should pay for everything they want, and where ABC journalists learn their craft. As a matter of fact, it is a wonder that "publically funded progressive media" has not also been included as a "human right". You and your friends missed that one, Sharon.

Fortunately, their influence is on the wane. Their iron fisted control of the media is slipping and they are inconsolable about that. No wonder they developed acute myopia about "human rights" when Andrew Bolt got prosecuted for committing political free speech. "Human rights" don't apply to right wingers. We are not human.
Posted by LEGO, Sunday, 8 June 2014 10:57:24 AM
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Here is another university educated person who truely believes education costs nothing.
Yep our unis have been dumbed down.
Posted by imajulianutter, Sunday, 8 June 2014 4:35:25 PM
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It appears Sharon doesn't bother to read the feedback her article generated. She certainly hasn't leaped to her own defence.

The problem with all the 'Sharons' is they cannot distinguish between the basic human rights most agree are necessary and fair, and the Cadillac version of their imagination.

Its total hypocrisy that the upholders of the right to Government handouts protest and scream outrage at the idea healthy people under 30 receiving welfare payments (or should I say the Benefit to avoid being politically incorrect) might be expected to repay the taxpayers by doing such a lowly act as Community Service or volunteer work.

Same goes for the students who can't accept its 2014, not 1970.

Whatever happened to the pride or goal of being able to stand on your own two feet?
Posted by sbr108, Monday, 9 June 2014 10:12:45 AM
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A thinking donkey Yuyustu?
Not as unusual as the genetically altered creatures of our future, like say a talking horse or a talking dog.
One imagines a scene, where two such animals, a horse and a dog are waiting in a dressing room backstage, waiting for their turn on Ripley's, believe it or not, TV.
Anyhow, in this far flung future time, the dog turns to the horse and asks, why the long face?
To which the horse rears back, and exclaims, holy horse manure, a talking dog!
And if you think that's way out there, it pales into insignificance Yuyustu, in comparison, beside the man, who can read the mind of a donkey?
[Personally, I'll warrant it all about Jack or Jill?]
Well, now we know why he works like a horse!
Whip crack away!
Cheers, Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 9 June 2014 10:59:40 AM
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Sbr108,
You mean Liberty? Oh that went out of fashion in the 1940's, "rights" are it's replacement.
The state takes away our liberty and constrains us within a box, Sharon Beder and her sympathisers are just asking if they might have a bigger box.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Monday, 9 June 2014 2:23:26 PM
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'When those unborn babies start protesting in the streets and demanding their rights then they will be heard and taken seriously. Until then I prefer to concentrate on the rights of actual living people.

Mikk shows his ignorance, total lack of compassion and hyprocrisy.
Posted by runner, Monday, 9 June 2014 3:18:03 PM
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Sharon Beder, you mention the right to free education in your opening paragraph yet I can't see any reference to Article 26 of the UDHR anywhere in your opinion piece. 26.1 says this:

"Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit."

As far as I know the elementary and fundamental stages of education are free in this country so how is the Abbott government interfering with the right as described above for the purpose of balancing the budget?
Posted by Roscop, Tuesday, 10 June 2014 2:59:48 PM
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