Peter (Sells),

>>What evidence from nature would you propose can be used for the existence of God?<<

None, I thought this was clear from my numerous posts here.

>>any god so proved is of the Monarchical monotheistic identity that does not approximate the Triune identity<<

I do not disagree, certainly God cannot be “proved”. I just do not understand where the God of Philosophers, contradicts God’s Triune identity, i.e. this additional “inner structure” that Christians see in Him.

Neither do I see the relevance of quantum mechanics to the complementary revelations of the same God in both the “books”, that of Nature and that of Scripture, to those who can discern and accept both revelations.

I am not trying to contradict you only understand Karl Barth from your articles.

George,
I think that the Triune identity precludes Monarchical monotheism and vice versus. It seems to me that Ockham's razor is appropriate here. The above identities are two views of the same thing, one is redundant. Furthermore, you cannot get to the Trinity via Monarchical monotheism. Look at Aquinas and the uneasy transition from the God that he could prove exists from nature and from scripture to the God who is Triune.

Peter (Sells),

I am sorry, I overlooked the “monarchical” part that as an explicit adjective to monotheism I have never heard of before. If it is defined as being against the Trinitarian structure (as it is, I presume in Islam and also Judaism) then of course, you have a contradiction.

However, I am sure there are many Christian scientists who see in nature they investigate the work of God, without claiming He has to be “monarchical” thus contradicting a “Triune identity”. Similarly for many philosophers interested in metaphysics. [Besides, already Genesis speaks of the “Spirit of God” (ruach Yahweh?) without understanding it (actually her) as being another God, different from the God Creator. You certainly understand these things better than I.]

I don’t think Aquinas wrote about proofs in the logical sense we understand the word today. From what I know, his Five Ways are today referred to as five arguments.

Sells.

Thank you for the thoughtful article.

Your comments of course address the issue of epistemology, and concern the question as to the nature of truth and how it is we come about the acquisition knowledge.

Christian epistemology seems to me to foreground the relational aspect of knowledge. Meaning is realized only from within the context of the life of the Christian community. Classical Christianity continues to maintain that truth is 'traditioned' from one generation to the next, which would seem to go counter, or at least condition, the claim that the "way sets us free." Does it denote further fragmentation? Do the "many paths" preclude a unity of faith?

How post post-modern are we really?

RyanF/quote..<<,the thoughtful article.>>
yes..i found the article..logic once i read beginning at the end/and working backwards..line by line..but the rejection of creation/as proof of anything rejects all materialist stuff/including winess hard texts..everything..including us and our thoughts

its the closing off
OF ALL SENSORY/MATERIAL/living/REAL STUFF I RESENT
but then you throw in..yet more/other big words

<<>.Your comments..of course address the issue of epistemology>>

,,..A branch of philosophy..that investigates
the origin,..nature,..methods,..and limits of/human knowledge..
THAT SORT/OF Hangs on materialistic things..THAT AFFIRM...Confirm..OR REFUTE...THE PHILOSOPHY-[SOP]..behind the reality/witnessed by us all.

,issues..<<and concern the question..as to the nature of truth and how it is we come..about the..acquisition...[OF?]..knowledge.>>from theses/opinion/creed or other abstraction derivative..of our experiences of reality?

<<>>Christian epistemology..[philosophy]..seems to me to foreground the relational*.aspect of knowledge...Meaning is realized only from within the context*.of the life of the Christian community>>

THAT SEEMS AS FAR REMOVED/from the lived experiences of the rest of us/not stuck in an allegorical parody..of structured reality/[where names mean imposed realities]

.<<..Classical Christianity>>..?...[unmarried priests/virginal nuns?..living by theories..of names in books]..<<<continues to maintain..that truth is 'tradition-ed'>>..[tradition-ing?..passed on?..ritualized/abstracted/limited/closeted/Insular/SEGREGATED/ISOLATED?]..<<from one generation..[SCHOOL?].to the next,..which would seem to go..counter,...>>

now here..MY MIND SEES..A TRADITIONAL FAMILY UNIT
[IE..THE NORMALITY/..REALITY..for most of us/not closeted..in creed]..

BUT THATS NOT..WHERE YOU TOOK IT

counter traditionalism..<<..or at least condition,
the claim...that..the.."way sets us free.">>

great point..BUT/its not designed..to set anyone free..
indeed being run..by non-breeding/yet presumably loving caring..'Christians'..EACH SERVING..to release the suffering/for EACH OTHER..

BUT HECK..IS THIS THE REALITY,,we see?
a living loving active/reality /that lets us see..or that blinds us..cant we simply shut reality out/ignore it..just LET IT BE?..WE SHALL SEE.

CTD

but then...its a closed world/CLOSETED-ACADREMIA
that seeks TO EXCLUDE..GODS CREATION..NATURAL REALITY..
ritualized by rote/creed/overriding common sense...into a mind/set..artifice[UN-natural ANTITHESES]...feigning the revealing of the unknown..but in denial even of the external naturalistic/god gifted/realities..

[NOT EVEN HAVING PETS NOR KIDS...
yet more OVER SIMPLIFICATION..TO ground their surrealistic ARTI-FICAL-reality.

even/now..growing ever further..AWAY/from the old hands-on priests seeking wisdom in nature/.dirt/seeds growing breeding like GREGGORY/who foundED/mendalism..[god given reassoting of favourable traits

Mendel, Mendelism. Gregor Johann Mendel (the first name was taken onentrance to his order), b. 22 July, 1822, at Heinzendorf near Odrau, in AustrianSilesia; http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/8478247

im sure/that.it Does it denote further fragmentation

<<>>Do the "many paths"..preclude a unity of faith?>>

most certainly..all reality
leads us to the eternal/internal oneness..[wholly spirit]
shall not..all christian paths[service to other]..flead to/the truth of the son/ruit of the sun and the wholly.living omnipresent/life /love mercy-full UNSEEN/spirit

revealed...ONLY by the sun sustaining THE Son..to de-light/RE IGNITE the holy of mens..living spirit..[to see me..is to see he..is to see..HIM IN WE..;..the he sustaining the living in thee/me]..

as jesus said...where ever two or more/are gathered..in my name..there aM I..same same..for el..the living spirit/that delights the son into sun..living by gift of the only omnipresent living one/most HIGH MOST WHOLE.

SEE PART OF THE WORKS..OF THE SUN
WE SEE THE SON..to see the son/we know he is sustained his living by the sun/..a true son/of sun..and the most holy one

DITTO GOD..see the sun..see the holy one
DITTO..the most holy wholly spirit..seen in everyone
sustaining every living..*being its life/LIVING..from within.