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The Forum > Article Comments > Stop the boats? Thinking about refugee policy and human rights > Comments

Stop the boats? Thinking about refugee policy and human rights : Comments

By Jack Maxwell, published 24/3/2014

It’s difficult to believe, but 60 per cent of Australians want the government to increase the severity of the treatment of asylum seekers.

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Dear Matthew,

In the case of "4 men in a boat" I would agree with Kant that no one should be murdered to save the others, but that doesn't necessarily make me a Kantian: if one of the four was dying naturally and without being pressured, completely voluntarily, asked the others to kill him because he had no hope to survive anyway, then it wouldn't be wrong to help him out of his misery, though I personally wouldn't do it.

<<then HOW do you convince yourself that this is NOT a “Utilitarian” act of moral deciding of one over another?>>

It is very simple: no act of preferring one over the other is involved. My heart may still cry for the 98%, but that doesn't allow me to actively harm the 2%. In fact, it would even make no difference if those arriving were "wealthy criminals" which I hated.

To clarify further, I am not "choosing to help the few refugees in boats near our shores", only to refrain from disturbing them - if for instance their boat takes water and they drown on their own, or if they starve to death after they arrive, then it would be perfectly legitimate for me not to intervene: if I did choose to intervene regardless in their favour, only then you may claim that I prefer the 2% over the 98%.

Approaching refugees from a wide holistic angle is virtuous and I salute those who do it. Yet while that goal is honourable, it doesn't justify violence in its implementation.

A "focus on the 2%" would indeed be "highly calculative", but I never suggested any such focus. My primary focus is on MYSELF/OURSELVES refraining from doing any violence - if ON TOP of that we can ALSO help others, so much the better.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 3:51:46 AM
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Yutsie: In the case of "4 men in a boat" I would agree with Kant that no one should be murdered to save the others,

No-one would have to murder anyone. When the first person dies naturally then the others eat him & are saved. CDF.

There's Kant, Utilitarian & CDF. CDF is better.

Be away for 18 days, going overseas for a bit. I'll miss you guys.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 8:42:18 AM
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Bon Voyage Jayb, some people must have lots of money, ay!
Posted by SPQR, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 9:03:18 AM
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Have a safe journey, Jayb,

<<When the first person dies naturally then the others eat him & are saved>>

By that time the others would be dying too, too weak to rise, cut and eat.

<<Be away for 18 days, going overseas for a bit. I'll miss you guys.>>

Too bad nobody will be here to explain to us what "CDF" means.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 9:06:32 AM
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CDF. Old Navel term. Dog being a term for an Ordinary Seaman. Hence, Common Dog Fu(#, You don't need to tell someone what to do because it's Basic Instinct. Ask any old Sea Dog. ;-)
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 9:53:42 AM
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