The AHRC has always been stocked with Labor / Green sympathizers, and the timing of this new enquiry is proof of it.

While the Labor government saw the numbers of children in detention ramped up from zero to more than a 1000 the AHRC was silent, now that numbers of children in detention are dropping and there have been no deaths at sea, the greens and Labor are trying to find some fault, and the ABC and the AHRC have suddenly been kicked into action.

They know what's going to happen to them when they get here. If they still choose to come then they have given permission to be incarcerated. No sympathy.

Shadow Minister is right; and what the hell is the AHRC doing, at taxpayers’ expense, poking its nose into the ‘rights’ of people who came here illegally! Like the ABC, this totally unneeded organisation has a treasonable attitude to Australia.

The AHRC has so little to do that it has to invent imaginary ‘rights’ to keep itself in business. The whole show is one that the Abbott government could consider getting rid of, along with all the other Lefty quangos invented by socialists.

And now, an ex-Commissioner is flattered by the imitation of his out-of-date nonsense. How nice. What about a little respect and thought for Australia, its laws and the wishes of its people! We certainly have more than our fair share of Fifth Columnists trying to white ant their own country, particularly when there is a non-Labor government in office

What about all the men in detention? When is the AHRC going to enquire into the standover, sexual abuse and violence inflicted by detainee gangs upon weaker and younger internees?
Given that over 90% of irregular maritime arrivals are men why aren't the AHRC and the other refugee advocates pursuing a sex discrimination case on behalf of these men?

Kids?? You get a few MALES who claim to be under 18 and of course we're supposed to take their word for it since any identification papers will have been destroyed before landfall or 'rescue'.

Now in our politically correct society we're supposed to take into account the cultural sensitivities of these people - you know, like 'marriage' of barely pubescent girls to men 2 and 3 times their age .... Correct?

In the culture our 'asylum seekers' practice any young male getting on a boat alone would be considered a MAN. Any other CHILDREN who arrive with parents are certainly much better off in the safety and security of detention than the situation they left behind where PRESUMABLY they risked persecution, torture and death - yeah?

There is no problem ....

Now if Abbott can continue to keep the boats out and do a half decent job on managing the economy - he's got my vote again next time round

Kids?? You get a few MALES
devine_mcn,
I wonder what would be said if we called our soldiers Kids ?

This debate is so annoying and I hate, hate finding myself atleast in part on the side of the bleeding hearts.

To the point. We became thoughtlessly involved in a war in Vietnam back in the 1960s and 1970s. Through our involvement millions were killed and a country destroyed. To help wash away the sin, we opened our arms to 10s of thousands of Vietnamese refugees and are the better for it.

More lately, we decided to become involved in even more egregious wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Millions killed, millions displaced, the countries treasures looted, a people destroyed and terrorised. But these displaced people are not refugees. We take no responsibility, we have no shame.

Over 80% of boat people are from Afghanistan and Iraq. We destroyed their countries.
To debate the legality of their arrival by boat - as if they were luxury yachts - beggars credulity. For our media and politicians of all sides to successfully frame this debate as entirely a border threat is an abomination beyond words.

Sadly, Australia has become some kind of intellectually retarded zombie state. When confronted with sporting strategy we are still capable of displaying deep insight and genius but anything to do with power, how things are run, how resources are used, how we live and anything political its like someone lobotomised a part of our minds.

The Human Rights Commission would do well to make a noise about 13 year old girls being married to men in their 20's and older. No doubt this practice has thrived in our nation under Labour/Greens. Could you imagine the outcry if it was Isralies living here following this cultural practice. Well I suppose their obsession with Abbott hatred is more important to them.

YEBIGA,No, no and no.
There's no "we" here, there's only NATO and the U.N. "We" had no say in the matter.
"We" did not destroy anyone's country, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan,Somalia and Sri Lanka were destroyed by Afghans, Iraqia,Sudanese,Somalis and Sri Lankans in decades long civil, ethnic and religious wars.
You want to lay blame for the situation the illegals find themselves living in? Blame the dogma of universal human rights, blame feminist theory and it's effect in biasing the reporting on conflict and blame Christians for being such suckers for a sob story.
While you're at it blame SERCO, the Salvation Army,the Catholic church, Anglicare and the myriad refugee support services, local councils and QUANGOS for profiteering from people smuggling and the refugee industry.

Well said, JoM, Well said.

Ditto !

No. Many countries declined to participate in the destruction of Afghanistan and even more refused to participate in the entirely unjustifed pillaging of Iraq. We elected to join the coalition of the willing. We marched in step with the Bush led agenda. We bought our ticket, we share the responsibility.

Worse, the WMDs could not be found or even contrived. A million murdered, their museums looted, 2 million displaced. Entire cities wiped off the face of the earth. Incontrovertible evidence of widespread politically endorsed torture by coalition forces of Iraqi civilians, incontrovertible evidence of the deliberate murder of civilians by coalition troops.

Our behaviour makes the NAZIs look humane by comparison. The NAZIS could at least manage an occupied country without it descending into civil war and sectarian violence. When the NAZIs looted at least they recorded who took what and where. We on the other hand wilfully engineered a cultural destruction. and after 10 years of occupation the place is still a disaster zone.

Lets exercise the legal standards applied at the Nuremburg trials against the NAZI s for conducting an aggressive war, for human rights violations - than at the very least philip ruddock and john howard must be charged for crimes against humanity. They are both on public record attempting to justify torture. They endorsed an illegal war under ostensibly false intelligence but when the WMDs failed to materialise they did not exit the war but stayed the course. Any fair hearing of the case would have them hanged - may God have mercy on their souls - and their advisers, generals and support personnel convicted and imprisoned.

Any shred of justice demands that Australia embraces its guilt and accepts any and every Afghanistani and Iraqi within its borders. That we embrace this as our deserved penance and thereby rejoin the community of civilised nations. That we immediately severe all diplomatic ties with the USA until such time as the USA itself makes its confession of guilt, abandons its global hegemony, its fictional war on terror and commits to minimum standards of decency.

YEBIGA,
That style of posting is commonly known as trolling, you make a deliberately outrageous comment in the hope that some sucker will pay attention to you.
The only point worth rebutting in that load of bollocks is the idea that Western nations profit from having colonies, they don't, colonies have always been a liability and a financial drain on the colonising power. The West had more influence over Iraq and made more money from their dealings in the region when Saddam Hussein was in power, in Afghanistan in the 90's the Taliban restored law and order and almost wiped out the drug trade, had they stayed in power the region would be peaceful. No, the wars are caused by "Human Rights" and Liberal ideology alone,from the battle of Buxar to Gordon in Khartoum, to the destruction of Berlin to the battle of Tora Bora it's always been about the strong standing up for the weak,
liberty and equality.

What a crock of Shite, YEBIGA

But it is entirely. Accurate
Just because its not the narrative you want hear, just because you prefer to see Australia as the good guy, does not make it so.

There is nothing remotely even exaggerated - its uncomfortable to hear, but we had no business being in Iraq. That we have abandoned attempting to justify our presence does not mean our Guilt is forgotten.

We participated in torture and murder of civilians
We have supported an aggressive punitive war against two defenceless nations
We have looted-their resources and their culture deliberately and wilful without cause but our desire to covet.

None of this is arguable

Thus it follows that the refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan are our moral responsibility
Whether they arrive by boat, raft or swim here.

Let me assure you, I am entirely sincere. Accusing me of trolling is a standard ad hominem when you lack a counter argument - people often resort to playing the man instead of the ball.

Rather than taking offence, I am sympathetic to the sustained web of mendacity we all endure. The sustained repetition of any absurdity, day after day after years, makes us prone to believe any nonsense.

Humans have an instinct to be honest and fair. And it is precisely this instinct that makes it easy for the unscrupulous to direct us to believe any nonsense, however absurd. Sadam is easily portrayed as insane, and then of course we have to rescue the poor Iraq people. Have we rescued the Iraqi people?

A million murdered, thousands tortured, their museums looted, cities erased, experimental weapons deployed, 2 million displaced - and Sadam was evil!

Lets try to stick with the facts and not resort to shifty ad hominem attacks The 2 million displaced refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan are largely the boat people trying to come to our shores. They are by every definition refugees. They have also come precisely to the right place to demand both assistance, redress and atonement.

YEBIGA,

The moment you say "Our behaviour makes the NAZIs look humane by comparison." you make yourself look like an uneducated foul mouthed shock jock troll.

I'm sure that you can show otherwise, but you are off to a bad start.

YEBIGA: Lets try to stick with the facts.

It's been awhile now since the Gulf War, so let's have a look at a few of your facts.

YEBIGA: Sadam is easily portrayed as insane,

Unfortunately, he was portrayed that way, but he knew exactly what he was doing when he murdered the Swamp people & gassed the Villages.

YEBIGA: Have we rescued the Iraqi people?

Well..... yes we did. Then THEY screwed it up. Not the Allies.

YEBIGA: A million murdered,

The Allies didn't do that the various Islamic factions did that themselves & are still doing it.

YEBIGA: thousands tortured,

Apart from a very small group of very stupid Yanks, the various groups of Islamic factions have been doing that themselves. Such is the Culture of the Middle East.

YEBIGA: their museums looted,

It was Sadams Republican Guard that was responsible for that & the robbing of the Banks.

YEBIGA: cities erased,

Name one.

YEBIGA: experimental weapons deployed,

So. they worked.

YEBIGA: 2 million displaced - and Sadam was evil!

If I remember correctly, and I do, people were leaving in droves even before the first Gulf War. They were trying to get away from Sadam. That's what prompted the Wars in the first place. Now they are leaving because of the various fanatical Islamic factions fighting each other. Now these people are escaping the Middle East & bringing their hatred of each others Islamic Sects & the West to the West. Should we allow this hatred to infect our Countries in the West? I don't think so.

The problems in the Middle East has nothing to do with the West. The West was trying to help these people & got mauled by the very people the West were trying to help in the process.

JayB,
This troll's racial thesis is shot down by one demonstrable truth,these wars have disadvantaged White people and saddled our children with debt they cannot repay, they may still bankrupt our states.
So the troll YEBIGA is actually putting the case of the warmongers who justified their actions by saying it was "our" duty as civilised people to take up the burden of spreading universal human rights and democracy.
George W Bush 26/1/2003
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJyhqlkaHB0
John Howard 2003
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYuum8xOsY8

Advocacy of universal human rights and global democracy is warmongering, Liberal Humanism is the the equal of any of the most aggressive religious cults in the world today.
It's universalist world views and racial theses such as the one promoted by the troll YEBIGA which are the problem and they must be eradicated before WE, the authentic WE not shown in quotation marks can be liberated and enjoy our freedom.

Dear YEBIGA,

You are of course completely correct in your stance and thank you for putting it so firmly.

Please do not mind the others who have been slinging off at you here. The really nasty piece of work is jay of melbourne. The others are sycophantic, insecure followers of his who are easily lead and have their noses so far up his fundamental that they are unable to articulate anything for themselves. In fact it has been quite instructional to observe how he has managed to get them sing from his songsheet. I suppose this is how fascism propagates.

Any self respecting Australian would not want children in indefinite detention. They have indeed mainly come from war-torn, terrifying circumstances, some of which we were complicit in creating.

To step aside from our responsibilities as Australians, as a relatively wealthy country, and as hopefully decent human beings, should be beneath our dignity. That it is for okay for some is regrettable but they dishonour what this country has stood for over so many years.

In fact they are a cancer attacking the very notion of what it means to be an Australian and their bigoted, racist, narrow, unfeeling and grotesque attitudes need to be challenged by the likes of yourself and I commend your efforts.

Thank you.

Good afternoon to you YEBIGA...

May I be the first to congratulate you on your receipt of this highly coveted award ! Many have sought this prize. Most have failed. So now you may finally rejoice and luxuriate in that dazzling light of distinction, having now finally entered that exulted place of international prominence !

'The STEELEREDUX Award' for: - 'Honorary Protector; of the Invading and Illegal (Islamic) and Intruding Boat People'.

Steele Redux,
Coming from you those words are a compliment and validation of what I'm trying to do, I'm quite happy with the labels "Fascist" and "Nasty piece of work", it means the two or so hours a day I spend on this site aren't wasted and reinforces the point that reactionary, inegalitarian viewpoints are still easily transmitted via the internet when humanist ideas are not.
The internet is our space because facts and the latest information on any given topic are at everyone's fingertips, add to that the permanent record created by internet postings and the ever expanding global archive of cyberspace and it's no wonder "Fascism" is proliferating.
I seriously doubt that my nihilistic revolutionary standpoint has unduly influenced other posters, the more likely scenario is that they've simply come to the conclusion based on the actual facts available that they are not rich and privileged merely by belonging to a particular ethnic group and that a racial thesis is a racial thesis and a myth is a myth no matter who is promoting it.

I noticed how quickly the discussion was moved away from its focus on the children in Immigration detention to a discussion about the legalities of the boat people. I notice how quickly we stooped to denigrating the boat people and their supporters on this thread.
I applaud YEBIGA and SteeleRedux for standing up to the ad hominem attacks from a number of the usual suspects. Please keep standing up for what you believe to be right.

I am sorry, but this partisan paradigm of us versus them strikes me as more then a stretch. As citizens of a country like Australia, who exactly is us and who is them. You seem to be defending some non existent phantom from past centuries. There is no them, there is just us. You can purchase a kebab in Sydney or in Albania. You can pray in a chapel or a mosque in Hong Kong or in London.

Nationalism is a tool used by the powerful to manipulate fools for their own ends. The powerful get richer, whilst the least powerful send their sons to return in body bags. It has ever been so.

City obliterated: fallujah
Illegal weapons used: white phosphorous, enriched uranium
US veterans report genetic defects
Torture: abu Ghraib pictures, public justifications by Philip ruddock of torture
Civilian murder: war logs released by lt manning to wikileaks
Illegal war: no WMDs
Punitive War: coalition stands down entire Iraqi infrastructure: local police, military, government, public service
Al queida Exaggerated fictional enemy, following the same script the NAZIs used against Jews.

Worse still. Is the sheer incompetence that after 10 years, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan is under any kind of civilised order. This is neither a war or an occupation, it is neither nation building nor exporting of democracy. It is pure barbarism: looting of art, looting of oil, experimentation with weapons, experimentation with torture techniques. Experimenting with manipulating western opinion. It is a laboratory of grand barbarism.

So as I say, even the NAZIs would be impressed with the sheer bloody mindedness of it all

So you would agree, as I do, that the West should pull out of everything Middle Eastern. Leave it all to the fanatic fighting Islamic factions to get stuck into one another. Is that what you are trying to say? What happens in the Middle East is not the Wests problem & the West should stay out of it. You have my vote.

You realize of course that the West is then not obligated to take any Asylum Seekers/Refugees & what the West has taken should be returned to the Middle East. The West now realizes that there are no "innocent civilians" because all the fanatic fighting Islamic factions do not belong to any recognized Army & are in fact all civilians & all civilians, men, women & children, as seen on the media, are involved in the disputes in one way or another.

The Middle Easts problem is not our problem. This problem in the Middle East started long before there was a "West." Just after Mohamed died. The West, sure as doG made little black ducks, doesn't want the Middle Easts problems infused into Western Culture as is happening around the World at the moment.

Good evening to you...BRIAN of BUDERIM & YEBIGA...

You seem to forget, that we all have an opinion, whether or not that opinion is right or wrong ? Because both of you, and STEELEREDUX have chosen to take the high moral ground, it doesn't necessarily mean, we who happen not to share your opinion are any less moral, nor are we perforce, incorrect with our views.

Personally, I do not think children should be caged at all. Nor should they be allowed to become involuntary pawns for these people. However, a much harder line MUST be taken with these people, who believe they can evade and ignore the rules, and simply override those other more virtuous souls who've waited patiently for years, in centres all around the world. Too bad for them, let 'em wait !

So with respect, your lot don't have all the answers, nor do you have any premium to the real truth. In fact, you're just like us, in that we can only assume or presume if you like, the real motivation, why many of these people wilfully circumvent the correct protocol ?

Interestingly, I have my own views and opinions, of which I don't propose to share with you, at this time. The word fraud is writ large, in my thinking with many of these people ! I'd bet my pension, if one were to dig deep enough, you'd be surprised what you'd find ?

Dear o sung wu,

You wrote;

“Personally, I do not think children should be caged at all.”

May I welcome you to the ranks of “self respecting Australian would not want children in indefinite detention”. Never doubted it for a minute. Fashioning a medal as we speak.

You also wrote;

“a much harder line MUST be taken with these people”.

Does this include the children?

And further do you agree with the actions of Tony Abbott in refusing access to children in our detention centres on Nauru and Manis Island for our Human Rights Commissioner because it was out of their jurisdiction?

Do you feel we have a responsibility, as the nation that transported them there, to ensure these children are not being further traumatised?

Finally as you seem to be ready to jump to the defence of people like jayofmelbourne are you in lock step with his view that “Advocacy of universal human rights and global democracy is warmongering,”?

Many countries declined to participate
YEBIGA,
Why don't you tell us why they didn't? 1, because they're anti west & 2, because they don't have the funds. 3, that leaves the western countries to do the dirty work as usual.

What I can not accept is the web of lies which render the vast majority of westerners and Australians stupid. The lies which demonise a whole people, the entirely unnecessary human rights violations, the incessant propaganda which frames the subject.

Both Afghanistan and Iraq are illegal aggressive wars. There is no amount of disinformation or equivocation which can change that fact. Whilst most nations in the world acceded to the US sabre rattling over Afghanistan, very few even western countries supported the war in Iraq. In the age of the Internet this record is there for all.

Sure, We are all entitled to our opinion, but for heavens sakes, at least read up on the basic facts. It is not like they are difficult to access. There are so many posters here who' s opinions are uninformed, inconsistent, and barely intelligible. I am accused of being a troll by posters who, as much as I can ascertain, are suggesting the very concept of human rights is actually responsible for these wars and refugees! Another would bet their pensions that at least some of these boat people have questionable, even fraudulent intentions!

It ill behoves a country of immigrants to behave as we do. Marching in goose step with the US. Lord admiral tony Abbott protecting our northern waters from these Islamic extremists dressed up as refugee women and children. Setting up concentration camps for processing these fraudulent refugees. And the steady media diet of simplistic idiocracy. Bleeding hearts to the left of us and fascists to the right - a pox on all of us.

But not because of our immorality, a pox on us because of our lame, craven, cowardliness. 100,000 or more marched to end the Vietnam war. When the government lied to us we protested, when employers exploited we striked, we stopped logging, and whaling. Today, We are a hollow generation, weak insipid, defeated. A generation obsessed with celebrity, status, careers, superannuation, weekend retreats. An old and senile generation entirely unfit for the technology available to us, an embarrassment to our predessors, our progeny and the environment

YEBIGA: City obliterated: Fallujah

Last time I looked Fallujah was still there. A big battle took place between two Armies, equally to blame for any destruction. That happens in a battle.

YEBIGA: Illegal weapons used: white phosphorous, enriched uranium
US veterans report genetic defects

Both sides used WP. EUP's are not illegal & not experimental. Though there has been some after battle problems. Much like some medicines.

YEBIGA: Torture: abu Ghraib pictures, public justifications by Philip ruddock of torture

Yes, as I said, a couple of idiot yanks in one prison. Did you see the torture chambers Sadam used where people disappeared. He had used these for many years. Do you consider Sadams to be OK?

YEBIGA: Civilian murder: war logs released by lt manning to WikiLeaks

Yes a couple of yank idiots. Civilian Murder was not endemic. It was to Sadam. Plus the fact that civilians picked up weapons & used them to kill soldiers & were killed for their effort. Do you call that civilian murder or self defence?

YEBIGA: Illegal war: no WMDs

I wonder where the Gas came from in Syria? It disappeared from Iraq. Or, did Sadam use it all up on those two villages where thousands of innocent civilians were murders.

YEBIGA: Punitive War: coalition stands down entire Iraqi infrastructure: local police, military, government, public service

Yes, I agree. rather stupid, & I said so at the time.

YEBIGA: Al queida Exaggerated fictional enemy,

You have got to be kidding right? So what's happening now in Syria & in Iraq? Al Queida backed violence. All their fighters are "Innocent Civilians" killing innocent civilians & seemingly enjoying the experience.

You & your terrorist mates have a lot to answer for YEBIGA. Just because the Western people won't embrace a sick medieval religion. Now you live in Australia & seemingly support Sadam & al Quaida & any other fanatical fundamental Islamic group. That IS a worry.

YEBIGA, that has nothing to do with kids in detention.

Ok, I have an Idea. We pull all the kids out of detention & teach them all to be good Christians. So they won't turn into fanatical fundamental Islamic Terrorists. Is that OK with you?

Yebiga, Brian, Steele,
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were acts of Liberal, egalitairian aggression, Bush, Blair and Howard are archetypal Anglo Saxon humanitarians, they are you and you are them.
I now understand the context of the word "we" in your posts but you need to appreciate that the vast majority of White people are not like you. We're a peaceful lot who don't go looking for trouble and if freed from Liberal warmongers and busy bodies such as yourselves we would simply close the borders, repudiate all treaties and live simple, sustainable and productive lives.
As for Fascism.
"Doctrine Of Fascism" Benito Mussolini & Giovanni Gentile 1932
http://www.historyguide.org/europe/duce.html
There are no Fascists in Australian public life, only Liberals, any failing or injustice is the fault of egalitarianism, humanism, democracy and the "Fair go".
"It isn't 'Islamofascists' who are destroying reason and Enlightenment".
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/gender_segregation_islamist_crusaders_on_campus/14423#.UvgaTV5jsYp

Jayb
“western people won’t embrace a sick medieval religion”

There are few discernible differences between the platitudes in Judaism, Christianity or Islam. They are all of one family. There are even fewer differences between a Zionist, a Christian fundamentalist or a jihadist. As there is little difference between a moderate Jew, Christian or Muslim.

Unfortunately, some humans are susceptible sectarianism, where one becomes convinced that their particular brand of imaginary friends are superior to the another groups imaginary friends. This is usually amusing, except when unscrupulous politicians take advantage of this otherwise benign condition and direct it from the imagination into the real. Then the victim becomes entirely unaware of his condition and perceives all sorts of imaginary insults and slights against their imaginary friends. They readily become possessed with a fever of hatred.

To illustrate the bizarre nature of this condition, when a Christian, for example, is so possessed, they will order a kebab at a local eatery and never perceive that the person making the kebab is in fact in league with his imaginary enemies. He will visit his local doctor of sub-continental extraction and never dream that the doctor is a Pakistani Muslim. The cab driver, who is almost certainly likely to be a Muslim in Australia, becomes invisible to the deluded sectarian.

So you see, but for the unscrupulous political exploitation, this condition is benign. No more dangerous than the antipathy between Collingwood and Essendon supporters. However, when politicians exploit the sufferers of this sectarianism, it changes into something quite ugly - and medieval.

Once sectarianism is let loose into reality, it grows into a fully blown paranoid delusion. Medical facilities become WMDs, caves in Afghanistan are intricate networks of subversion. Soon the victim can't actually discern friend from foe. If your not with them your against them. And to head off the now rife treason, every lie, every crime, every fantasy is acceptable to save us from the imaginary enemy and their imaginary friends. So of course who but these sworn enemies would board these boats - and with their children no less?

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

As it would appear that you're the self-appointed, 'Lord High Inquisitor' for those of the far left, it befalls me, I suppose to step-up for your interrogation ?

Q. A much harder line must be taken, does this include Children ?

A. No

Q. Tony Abbott's refusal to permit access to the Children ?

A. I do.

Q. '...as the nation that transported them here...'

A. Invalid question - these children accompanied their 'parents' here.

Q. '....etc is warmongering ?

A. You'll need to put that question to JAY of MELBOURNE.

There's very little doubt that you've appointed yourself; spokesman, inquisitor, and defender of Islamic rights ? OK, I accept that. Therefore, my egocentric friend, come a major war emanating from the Middle East, involving the allies. Exactly what side would you be on STEELEREDUX ?

Or would it be yet another repeat of the 1960's/1970's 'Vietnam Moratorium' days ? Where many of Australia's TRAITOR'S & COWARDS hid behind the more respectable mask, of being a CONSCIENCE OBJECTOR ?

Dear o sung wu,

Bloody hell mate just have a look at what you have become.

When I stick up for these children you label me as “spokesman, inquisitor, and defender of Islamic rights”. Never mind a huge proportion of these unfortunate kids are Sri Lankan and therefore likely Hindu or Christian.

So why do you do it? Well the only explanation is that you are determined to dehumanise them in your own mind by classing them as Islamic. In your seeming hate filled world this apparently allows you to justify turning a blind eye to the serious human rights abuses your country is engaged in.

For God's sake man Australia has been named and condemned by the UNHCR. I would never have thought we would ever be in that position. Yes I do enjoy the moral high ground and I want it for my country, but we seemed determined to piss that all up against the wall all to the deafening sounds of applause from the likes of you.

And you dare imply that I am the traitor?

YEBIGA you're kidding me again, aren't you. What a another crock of $#!t.

Do you mean to tell me that Al Qaeda, Hamas, Al Shabaab, Ansar Dine & Ansar al Sharia are all just misunderstood Charitable groups going around helping out their Muslim brothers? Gee, I didn't know that.

Australia should embrace these groups for the wonderful works they do. Now that you have explained them to me.

Anyway what's this got to do with incarcerating children, that's what we are discussing here. Do you like my idea that we release all the children, just the Children, & teach them to be nice Christians.

Maybe they could study with misunderstood Christian Groups like, Southern Baptist, K.K.K., Aryan Nation, Army of God & Hutaree. I think that would be the least we could do to help these children, Don't you, YEBIGA.

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

Ah my dear fellow, I've implied nothing ! I merely asked - well you know precisely what I asked...precisely ! Yet for reasons known only to you, you've sought not to furnish us with your answer ? And having been a copper for many years, I presume nothing STEELEREDUX, nothing at all ? Mind you, I do wonder why you responded with such indignation and obvious affront, nonetheless ?

Sri Lankan's, I wonder what sort of 'Huge' proportion of those, are Tamil Tigers ? Their own government (their Ambassador in Canberra) accuse many of them of having membership of that terrorist group ? Moreover, he totally refutes any suggestion, these people are actually fleeing for their lives.

Many others of course, who've chosen to arrive by the nautical route, were originally from Middle Eastern countries, thus are Muslims STEELEREDUX.

I've also noticed, deeply ensconced within your previous diatribe you've used the expression; '...serious human right's abuses 'your country' is engaged in...' ? How so ? Isn't a fact, Australia is also 'YOUR COUNTRY' too, STEELEREDUX ?

Or are you telling us all, Australia is no longer good enough for you and your Islamic cohorts ?

Seemingly, you're perhaps erred somewhat, injudiciously in your thinking, that many of these hapless children are innocent victims. It's my belief, most of these poor kids are outrageously, proffered forward as mere pawns, in the belief it will make it much harder for the authorities to turn them away. There's little doubt, it'll work I believe ?

SteeleReedux is simply Poirot with extra doses of hormones.

O Sung,JayB
Don't expect to see any sense in it, it's just Papulanji dreaming, unless you can follow the songlines you can only guess at the dimensions of their cosmology.
Steele and Yebiga are clearly among the most competent song men or shamans of their caste, generally speaking the folklore of other groups is incomprehensible to outsiders so it's no wonder you or I would struggle to connect with their posts.

Jayb
The USA has 164,000 military personnel stationed in some 150 countries. Some people may be offended by their presence in their country. That guy you call a terrorist considers himself a freedom fighter.

but lets leave that for now, Consider the array of technology available to this US personnel, from satellite images, all manner of surveillance equipment, computer programs deciphering convesations, emails, etcetera. Consider the level of sophisticated weaponry, including drones and other non detectable incursion devices. Add A virtually unlimited budget for informants, and training of personnel.

Is it really plausible or even conceivable that a religiously inspired group of any description could offer any resistance to such a force?

Rather then look outside the US for terrorists and enemies, is it not far more likely and almost inevitable that US policy is determined by factions within the US military and intelligence apparatus fighting for hegemony amongst themselves.

After all, if you have the weapons and the personnel ready, its a bit of waste if you don't get to use them. And if you don't have a credible enemy, the politicians might get it into their heads to scale down personnel and equipment. History is replete with generals fighting each other for supremacy, from roman times.

I am not suggesting their is not the odd jihadist out their. But its also not difficult to drug up some simpleton, tie a suicide vest onto him and send him unwittingly into a crowded square. And either side is capable of that.

History shows when a powerful occupier like the US can not subdue the citizenry after 10 years of occupation, there is something seriously wrong. Once Rome became incapable of subduing its provinces its power faded and soon the barbarians were at the gates of rome. Once, the USSR quit Afghanistan it too soon disintegrated. Ditto the British empire.

This adventurism has destroyed US moral credibility globally. We have tied our apron strings to a falling star. It is time to make atonement and embracing the boat people is the first step.

YEBIGA,
The Americans also call themselves freedom fighters. Who do think does more good for humanity ? The US soldiers or the superstitious mutts from the quarries they call home. I think it so utterly sad to see so much incredible histoy being destroyed by those gremlins.

As far technological warfare is concerned think this. Would it be necessary if those superstitious mutts didn't cause so much trouble ? How much war machinery do you see deployed in civilised countries ?

Good evening to you YEBIGA...

I've just read your last thread, and some of the material you've mentioned, I feel it necessary that I correct some of what you've just said ?

In part you said '..if the US can't subdue the citizenry after 10 years of occupation, there's something seriously wrong...'? Actually, that's not quite true ? Vietnam particularly, that war was not lost in the steaming paddy fields or swampy jungles of that country.

In reality, the war was lost in New York's Times Square, the grounds adjacent to the Washington Memorial in DC, in Martin Place, Sydney, and Bourke and Swanston Streets in Melbourne, and many other places in those countries who had unwittingly committed troops to that unwinnable war.

It was public opinion that defeated the military. You see it's very hard to prosecute a war with one hand tied behind your back. I could write volumes about that war, few would be interested, even fewer would even care.

Indi,
Plenty, some genial American constables posing for a group photo:
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110721155016/deadliestwarrior/images/8/80/Swat.jpg

This may also be of interest:
Propaganda by the Deed, Fourth Generation Warfare and the Decline of the State
An Examination of the History of the Decline of the State’s Monopoly on Violence and Warmaking
By Keith Preston
http://attackthesystem.com/propaganda-by-the-deed-fourth-generation-warfare-and-the-decline-of-the-state/

Actually it WAS the Yanks that lost the war. At the Paris Accord it was the Yanks turn to speak first. The North Vietnamese had decided to throw the town in & would announce it next day. When proceedings started next day they stood up & said they had something to announce. The Yanks objected saying that it was their turn to speak first & they dam well would. Then the Yanks capitulated. Much to the amazement of the North Vietnamese. (General Giap's Memoirs.)

Let's get back to the subject. Let's teach the these kids to be good Fanatical Fundamentalist Christians.

Jayb,
Sorry to disagree but I think we should teach them to be fundamentalist atheists with a sense of responsibility & good will.

Steeleredux
I am interested in your thoughts regarding the self appointed adversaries to reason which proliferate on this site, namely the 2 jays and their side kick.

Can you make any sense of their posts? It seems to me their purpose is only to disrupt any coherent discussion, no more no less. Are you of the same view or am I missing something? Is jay of melbourne some white supremacist? You would think that hardly possible.

One consistent theme they purport is that human rights and those who believe in them cause wars and much of the worlds ills. This is reason attacking itself. A sort of post modern right wing revenge. I have to admit it is perverse but an interesting ploy. Entirely disingenuous but interesting.

So what do you think,are they sincere or just vandals

Well, Welcome back Poirot or as you are under your real name now. YEBIGA. What's that Arabic for. !D)uT. How was Syria, Made it back in one piece I see.

I see you haven't changed your spots though, still deflecting the topic. Nine Posts & not one mention of the Kids in
detention.

You do know that that is what this topic is, don't you? I did complain to Graham but I am suspicious that there maybe some Politically Correctness in there somewhere. Not saying that he is Biased though, far from it.

Now back to the Topic.

You do remember the Topic is "Kids in Detention" don't you. How do you feel about bring all the kids out of detention & teach them to be Good Law Abiding Australian Citizens with Australian values? None of your Middle Eastern values. I think that would be a top idea. No Parents of course. The kids could see their parents on weekends. The kids would be well fed, get a good education & Western, especially Australian, values.

Good idea or not. Please try to stay on topic.

Hi there JAYB...

I'm right off topic here but, the Paris Accord was probably the official line, it was the rousing crowds of Dissenters all around the world, convinced the American Government to literally loose the strength and determination to continue the fight ? The United States itself was tearing itself apart, and if the Paris accord did anything at all, it gave the US the opportunity to exit the war without loosing too much 'face' in the process !

Militarily, the US could have won the conflict in a week, by the use of a limited nuclear response. Westmoreland, had in fact (secretly) established a protocol in order to occasion such a response. However, nobody in the White House had the 'will' to adopt such a measure, essentially because of the burgeoning dissent amassing all around the world.

Deat Jay,
Thank you. Syria was great. It was good to catch up with a few friends and smoke a few pipes. Now these children, what exactly did you propose to teach them? What are Australian values?

For as it happens, my Syrian friends and I were having exactly this discussion about Australian and Western values. It seemed to us that Australia has abandoned many of its values.

For one thing the white Australia policy seems to have been altogether dropped. The traditional view that Australia's indigenous people were actually fauna has also been abandoned and they are now recognised as human beings. The love for the English motherland abandoned for the promise of US salvation. The once Christian country now largely secular. The free press supplanted by a concentration of corporate owners all singing from the same consumerist song.

Well, I know it is presumptuous, but it seems that Australia has entirely abandoned its values. At Australian universities, no one studies history or philosophy. The humanities students are only into identity politics. It is like they don't know who they are. Everyone is pretty much studying practical business courses and things. But as you know while these maybe valuable they are not values, as in principles.

The lucky country of the long weekend replaced by long 60 hour working weeks, the proliferation of casual jobs and the ever present threat of losing your job. The unions eviscerated. The entire mate ship ethos replaced with the inane pursuit of fashion labels, imported cars, McMansions. And those who can't cope with the vacuity, self medicate themselves with alcohol, prescription drugs, reality TV, celebrity and sports.

It is really all rather sad this cultural decline. If it is any consolation its happening right across the entire western world. Seems to me the karma bus has well and truly arrived.

So what did you propose to teach the children exactly?

Dear YEBIGA,

I'm not sure jayofmelbourne describes himself as a white supremacist but if it walks like a duck... He has admitted to being a subscription member of Storm Front, an ardent revisionist (“There's no such thing as genocide, it's a faudulent(sic) concept invented by Jewish activists to bolster their case for extracting billions of dollars in war reparations from the WW2 Axis powers.”), and proudly asserts “It's no longer possible for you to keep ahead of "Fascism" or portray us as idiots, that era is gone, you either have to deal with us or remain silent.”

Jayb is not as ideologically driven but like other such as o sung wu, belly, individual, and banjo, he is in thrall to his fears of 'Islamic invasion' and this is the prism through which he views much of the world.

Of course the same type of fears that have historically been so efficiently exploited by fascist regimes and jayofmelbourne is not above directly singing the siren's song.
“Jayb, You'd be better off joining us "Fascists", to "fix" all those problems you list will mean WWIII and hills of bodies, we just want to close the borders and keep to ourselves.”

I suppose it is like any addiction, you know it is wrong but if the consequences, of you going just that little bit further each time, are not sinking in then you just go ahead. The payoff is that you are doing something to calm your fears. JOM is just another hustler on the street corner. Normally the other guys would have given him short shrift but being this fearful they are buying what he is selling.

So are they sincere? Yes they are. They may occasionally claim they were primarily engaging in stirring up the 'do-gooders'. This is not true.

In a way we are fortunate here because their anonymity allows us to view the depths of their fears and attempt to poke some rationale and humanity into into its dark corners.

Keep shining that light my friend.

Steele,
Why would I play on people's fears of Islam in order to draw them toward "Fascism"?
Islam and Fascism/European Nationalism are compatible, what religion do you think all those Moroccan Regulares who fought for Franco followed?
If the eradication of Liberal and Socialist values and the replacement of human rights with human duties is the desired result or if the long term goal is implementation of a multi confessional theocracy then an alliance of radical Muslims and some sort of Christian Falange seems logical.
I'm not rejecting outright the label "Fascist" but it's not completely accurate, it's usually just the worst epithet that the unsophisticated Liberal can call to mind but in this day and age "Fascism" is no longer beyond the pale, in fact the goals of early 20th century Fascists have mostly been met by Liberal Democracy.

I'm very sorry JAY of MELBOURNE, you've lost all chance of ever being awarded the STEELEREDUX merit badge, simply because you've dared disagree with him ! You see, in order to receive acceptance from someone who's such an entrenched narcissist, you must follow his peculiar agenda to the letter. It's only then, he may consider conferring his unique imprimatur upon you and your opinions.

Most ordinary folk may have an opinion or view which is diametrically at variance with yours. So in normal course of events a spirited discussion may ensure with one offering an opinion, the other attempting to circumvent that opinion, but generally at the conclusion of the debate, the two antagonists agree to disagree, and part on friendly terms. This process is impossible with one, that is endowed with such a massive ego. His immense arrogance prescribes that he must, at all costs, try to divest his opponent of all his self respect, and his dignity. It's only then, this individual feels sufficiently satisfied, having thoroughly defeated his adversary.

I'm sorry, but I don't want to be an Emperor, that's not my business. I don't want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone if possible, Jew, gentile, black man, white. We all want to help one another, human beings are like that. We all want to live by each other's happiness, not by each other's misery. We don't want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone and the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone.

The way of life can be free and beautiful. But we have lost the way.
Greed has poisoned men's souls, has barricaded the world with hate; has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed.

We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in;
machinery that gives abundance has left us in want.
Our knowledge has made us cynical,
our cleverness hard and unkind.
We think too much and feel too little.
More than machinery we need humanity,
more than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness.
Without these qualities life will be violent and all will be lost.

The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men, cries out for universal brotherhood for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world, millions of despairing men, women and little children, victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people. To those who can hear me I say: do not despair.

End Quote,

The rest can be found here;

http://luis.impa.br/chaplin.html

O sung,
Yeah they weren't kidding all those years ago when they said "make the personal political" furthermore if "reductio ad Hitlerum" isn't a sign of fear and insecurity I don't know what is
If they want to call me a Fascist that's fine but then we have to get into an honest discussion about what Fascism actually stood for, the reality is that if a person or party tried to run a Fascist platform in 2014 the reaction from most voters would be: "Big deal, we already have most of the things you're offering".
I dedicate this song to Yebiga and Steele:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EreTmEZ4teg

Nice work Steele quoting the words of a child molester who liked to screw the little girls who worked on his movies, Jimmy Saville was also a "great man" until he passed on and the truth came out eh?
There we have it, your side can't even bring up an authentic Adolf Hitler speech with which to condemn us, you have to rely on fiction and satire then hope nobody becomes curious and digs a bit deeper in to the issues.

I drop by to have a peek at "one" thread on OLO - and note that I'm now supposedly SteeleRedux and/or YEBIGA.

Too Funny!

Poirot actually manages to kick the habit of arguing with rabid right-wingers on this forum - yet she finds herself fondly referenced...

I'm flattered : )

Keep up the good work SteeleRedux and YEBIGA...you appear to get under their skin.

Poirot,
you must admit though that those two are a true reflection of your mentality & fully qualify to be you.