Jennifer,

Thanks for a fascinating article. I'm certainly no expert on Ngarrindjeri place-names - the Berndts recorded many hundreds of names, the vast majority of which were lake-side or river-side or coastal camp sites. I suspect that the various clans or extended families, within the dialect groups, within the Ngarrindjeri, which occupied the lands around Lake Alexandrina would have had their own names for the waters near their lands, but I don't know if there was ever a single name for Lake Alexandrina.

Groups further up the Murray similarly may have had their own names for the reaches that they controlled, but there may not have been a single name for the River. Outsider groups may have had their own names for both. Similarly, with Lake Albert.

By far the most comprehensive work on all this would, of course, be Ronald and Catherine Berndts' 'A World That Was'. I hope that Melbourne University Press can one day have the courage to reprint it.

As well, Philip Clark has done some wonderful work on this subject.

Regards,

Joe

Joe,

According to the geologists there are at least six generations of late Pleistocene dune systems in the area corresponding to a period when the climate was drier and colder and windier.

The Pleistocene ended about 10,000 years ago when the Holocene period started.

By about 7,000 years ago sea levels had already risen about 130 metres, the Murray River was being pushed back and the region now known as Lake Alexandrina was a shallow embayment.

Since this time sea levels have fallen about 2 metres and a sand peninsula formed across what was the embayment creating Lake Alexandrina. The sand peninsula was probably in place by 2-3,000 years ago.

So maybe Ngurunderi made his epic voyage down the river about then?

Jennifer,

Stories don't have to be consistent or logical, and heroes had all sorts of magical powers anyway, so it would have been no trouble for Ngurunderi to fly, swim or levitate across the Murray Mouth.

Many groups living away from the mouth may not have been aware that there was one, or that it was a violent and dangerous place at the change of tides - the meeting of the waters, given two tides each day and a narrow mouth, could have been well up the Lake (when the river was low) or well out to sea (when it was in flood). But that would have been no trouble to an ancestral hero.

Love your work !

Joe

i agree with joe jenn..great work

anyhow joe..you too are @B-origonal..[YOUR alpha/beta-origonal]

my origonals ..i have outlined..we are all origonal from somewhere
thaTS why we are bound to the location..of our birth tree.

like i said..im origonal dutch..[my totum duty is to the head of the deer/[i only own the duty to the head]..see in a time of previous judgment..the carnivors needed meat..my ancestors gave them his body..but left THE HEAD..free..in the wilderNESS.

AT THE SECOND JUDGMENT..they came..for judgment
this time..they were so hungry..they transmutated even ONE OF THE HORNS..[i hold as totum duty also the remaining horn of issiah]..ITS A single golden horn of plenty[transmuting/even horn/hoof..into food by secret process involving..SPIRIT AETHER/fire/water..earth and wiND.]

LOt..we are aSA WIND..

thing is..we are alL original..from somewhere
my parents from nederland..their parents new holland..wilderness..and [van die mens island]..also called groot island and melville..there are so many name changes.

SO I WAS ASSISTED..the past is past'
[yet my computer issues are compounding today]

we are all origonal..FROM SOME*PLACE
WE..[some]..come knowning the man..[alpha..other kmowing the beta]

so much we need to sort out..but too many secrets
some secrets..is birth place..of eve..is under the state stone..in Canberra..birth place..of adam..is in a deep hole/sink..just off victoria...

i can only reveal what was revealed to me
SKIN..IS KEY..totum=key..mens/WOMANS BUSINESS IS key..place of birth is key..IT ALL BEGIND WITH KNOwing who is your mother[please note the father..is one[biami]..but think.

why does A WOMAN..lets call her wadjima..go into a mans house
under a mans nAME..how on earth can a woman wafjma..give birth of her flesh..to a biami

thats how men hide the fact of war
kill the man.leader/jail/him..then make woman change her name to hide the crime..[we need return patriarchy into histry[ie matriarchy..your name the same name as she who created you]..we need return to moon time..EACH MONTH=A NEW YEAR..cause so many abuses are via 999 year lease

so much i waited to tell..but my spearing ..MADE THEM FRIGHTEND

I hate TALKING OF IT..BECAUSE.,.of just this silence
wHAT/..im delusional..[its aNYMORE unbelievable]..than a darn murry cod swimming upriver/

WHAT IF I WAS a blackfella..in ochre*..NOW YA BELIEVE/

ok believe this
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2014/01/trh_20140125.mp3

this explains WHY YA CANT BELIEVE
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2014/02/trh_20140208.mp3

Titles i expect to hear next

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2014/01/trh_20140104.mp3

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2013/12/trh_20131228.mp3

no this one..i think..'Believers and doubters
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2013/12/trh_20131214.mp3

oh well interesting topic
im sorry to have bothered you

found a new place to talk
https://community.ed.ted.com/teded/topics/promise_to_pay_gods_money_not_fiat_dont_end_the_coin_age

Hi OG,

Pride of place in my lounge is a brilliant painting by Jake Stengel of Ngurunderi pursuing the Murray cod down the river - if he ever wants it for an exhibition of his extensive and beautiful work, I'd be happy to lend it.

Origin myths such as this one mark out territory and how it was distributed, who has the authority over it, expressed or mediated in this case through 'ngatjis' or totems. It's a tragedy that the Hindmarsh Island scam cut right across that fundamental account, denied its centrality, and as a consequence, has damaged any understanding of genuine perceptions of Ngarrindjeri origins.

But so often rank opportunism distorts the truth, it cripples it, corrupts it. But as one brave woman put it, 'Reconciliation begins with the truth.' And so much else does too. So much harm is done by lies, nothing can move forward, so much damage has to be somehow UNDONE before truth can be restored as a foundation, and people can move forward.

Joe