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The Forum > Article Comments > Beautiful lies? > Comments

Beautiful lies? : Comments

By John Dickson, published 25/12/2013

Self-deception has an unparalleled upside. It allows us to dare to imagine the impossible, or at least the highly implausible, and frequently to watch it unfold.

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"Self-deception can be harmful, but it can also lift us to great heights and bring about unexpected realities. Sometimes the delusions are truer than all the available evidence."

Maybe, but that's certainly not the way to bet. Particularly when the 'delusion' requires us to believe that the laws of physics can be suspended by a Sky Fairy whom nobody alive has ever actually seen, spoken to or otherwise experienced. Objectively speaking, many times more people have been damaged by their delusions -- religious and otherwise -- than the number that have been inspired. For every solo round-the-world sailor there are dozens of women, children and men suffering sickness, despair, pain and death because of their own or someone else's delusory beliefs.

If you desperately want to defend something that you can't support rationally, then you really only have two options -- do it with obfuscatory nonsense or do it with violence. Most Western Christians have chosen the first alternative, like the author, but unfortunately there are many others who prefer the second.
Posted by Jon J, Wednesday, 25 December 2013 5:18:40 PM
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Americans are filled with self-deception! They consider themselves to be 'exceptional'. They believe they are born to rule and, to that end, have put together the most massive army the world has ever seen.

Problem is, their army couldn't even defeat Iraq. Or Afghanistan. Even using depleted uranium and phosphorous munitions and napalm and Agent Orange and Shock and Awe and Drones, they still couldn't win.

Americans believe they are close to gaining world control. They just have to beat China and Russia. Ha, ha, ha! They will never beat either. They haven't got enough boots on the ground!

The other factor is that Russia and China are strong and united and have long histories that show an understanding of national survival.

The U.S. can't even learn from its own disgusting, blood-filled history or its failures on the battlefield.
Posted by David G, Wednesday, 25 December 2013 6:02:02 PM
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ahhh dick..never a truer word was spoken
sign=[lul]

yeah..hi..dikk..im CHALLENGING..the free*association..law
on new years eve..at the south bank[i will be comming from the east/likely by train]..i will be wearing my true colours

my name will be under..my..biker name
[nightmare]..the signage holding on my colors..have symbolism
that will be tatood upon my flesh..just in case they try..totake my colours..

the words on my patch..will include the words info wars
one under god then 178808..i expect my death./.by police man
somewhere around 11;11 pm..[so my father advizes]

its all..to try to link to..this
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152#178808

anyhow war is over..if we want to
cheers..

i now go to read
*your read.
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 25 December 2013 8:11:26 PM
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Israel's former prime-minister, Levy Eshkol, is best known for his phrase: "Yes, I know I promised, but I never promised to keep my promise."

A healthy attitude would thus be: "I believe, but I never believed that what I believe is objectively so".

Yes, I recommend that you believe what is good to believe in, nay, what is best to believe in, rather than in what is objectively so. This at times may coincide with the objective facts, at other times it wouldn't - but what's important is that you do your best: indeed, why should the act of believing be different than any other action?

Some may consider the above circular: how would you tell what is best to believe in, other than by believing that it is the best?

However, believing that a particular line-of-action, including the act of believing, is best, has nothing to do with objective nature because no objective science has ever found 'goodness' in nature. While science is discovering the particles responsible for gravity and electro-magnetism, not even a hint of a particle of 'goodness', 'importance' or 'value' was ever discovered - hence, whatever your choice in believing that something is better than another, it is as irrational as any other choice.

Believing that "believing in whatever can be empirically demonstrated is best", is paying over-importance to achieving objective results, which in turn reflects the values of materialism - that irrational belief that material gain is good.

While only a fool may attempt to rationally prove otherwise (eg. that material gain is not always the best), I dare say that myself and many others do not agree with the above belief, that in fact we consider it a superstition.

(Interesting reference: http://ezinearticles.com/?I-Promise-to-Tell-the-Truth,-the-Whole-Truth-and-Nothing-But-the-Truth&id=6728543 )
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 25 December 2013 10:50:42 PM
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yep truely the concept of a Creator God is absurd at least until you think about the complete irrationality and stupidity of the alternative explanations such as big bang evolution etc. Suddenly the acceptance of a Creator by faith of the obvious becomes very rational. Evolution and its other infants such as gw just makes a mockery of science. Now that is (evolution) one BIG lie.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 26 December 2013 9:56:29 AM
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Beautiful lies indeed!

The entire "New" Testament was fabricated out of the store-house or bits and pieces of the mythologies of the religions of the ancient world that preceded it - every last bit of it.
Anyone who pretends otherwise has not done their homework or is lying.

What is more it was primarily a political document, the purposes of which were to entrench the political power of the church "fathers" who won the culture wars of their time and place. Who thus had the necessary political power (via the business end of swords) to deal with those who lost the culture wars - the "heretics". And to define the new religion of christian-ism as a distinctly different religion from that of the Jews - indeed as a religion that was superior too and superceded the religion of the "old" testament. Such became the basis for centuries of applied anti-semitism.
The truth about christian-ism as a power-and-control-seeking political religion.
http://www.dabase.org/up-5-1.htm
http://www.aboutadidam.org/articles/secret_identity
http://www.aboutadidam.org/readings/birthday_message/index.html
http://www.beezone.com/AdiDa/jesusandme.html
Posted by Daffy Duck, Thursday, 26 December 2013 10:07:41 AM
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Hi John,

I guess self deception does have its upsides if it makes you happy.

I’m not entirely convinced it is pure self deception initially, each of the some 34,000 religions seem to have been started by some type of “prophet” along the lines of Aristotle’s Rhetoric. Ethos (I am important and would I lie?), Pathos (this will really do you good) and Logos (here's a few "facts" to impress you).

After that of course, self indoctrination takes hold and it doesn’t matter if it is religion or any other belief system, they all follow a familiar pattern.
Posted by spindoc, Thursday, 26 December 2013 12:08:28 PM
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The most difficult words to say in any language: I don't know.
That's reality, and the challenge is to recognize delusion then reject or harness it - and be careful not to become a useful fool.

Oh, and don't get hung up on the messenger, the message is what is important.
Posted by Johnno, Thursday, 26 December 2013 1:52:09 PM
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"I don't know" is a key part of the Christian/Jewish message. When God appears to Moses in a burning bush he asks him who he is, and he says "I am that I am". "Israel" means to wrestle with God. "God" is a generic, non-specific noun. Fundamentalists have done a lot of violence to God by insisting he can be bounded.
Posted by GrahamY, Thursday, 26 December 2013 10:28:31 PM
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'"I don't know" is a key part of the Christian/Jewish message ' may be true Graham but denying what we do know is probably more damaging. Plenty are ashamed of Jesus and His words.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 26 December 2013 11:20:55 PM
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i dont know..indicates a lack..of imagination
or a lack..of guides..[but we each have at least two guides
that changes option two into the third option/they arnt looking within
[arnt asking/or we simply cant hear..be*cause..through fear/anger..and intoxication..our mind disconnects from the brain[or rather the brain/disconnects from the mind

never mind the lips of the flatterer
no lie has beauty..worse..all lies lie in darkness.
Posted by one under god, Friday, 27 December 2013 4:57:09 AM
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'"I don't know" is a key part of the Christian/Jewish message.'

Especially when it's followed by "...so I made something up."
Posted by Jon J, Friday, 27 December 2013 5:58:38 AM
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"So I made something up," says Jon, wisely.

Yes, humans are experts when it comes to making up and delivering 'beautiful lies'. Even a cursory examination of human history shows clearly the penchant that humans have to invent a lie, then believe it. That's why religion is a never-ending con, one which comes in a variety of forms but all with a central message: 'stop thinking, believe what we say no matter how ridiculous it is, and give us financial support!'

Of course, if the 'beautiful lie' has a large component of reward in it (like living forever), it does help the sheep to take on board the lie and believe all its embellishments that predictably follow the first lie.

Of course, when religious beliefs/lies collide, people get killed. All over the world we see evidence of this. The Muslims and the Christians are at each other's throats currently. The battle rages and the 'beautiful lies' become the ugly backdrop to genocide and mass slaughter.

When will humans stop telling themselves 'beautiful lies?'

Never. Only when the nukes start falling, will the lies stop along with all life which will include that of all the liars.

Seems fitting somehow!

A world ended because of a conflict between liars.

That's real irony!
Posted by David G, Friday, 27 December 2013 9:20:40 AM
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Hi David G,

I read some of your posts in amazement. You leap into the verbal fray to vent your spleen at the faith of the religious and yet somehow you fail utterly to recognize this precise same mantra in yourself!

You and your motley crew of green fellow travelers were “sprung” 2,400 years with Aristotle's Rhetoric. The basis for the marketing of all prophets of “faith”.

Ethos (I am important and would I lie?), Pathos (this will really do you good) and Logos (here's a few "facts" to impress you).

You say << it does help the sheep to take on board the lie and believe all its embellishments that predictably follow the first lie”>>.

Oops David, would this be “ Ethos” by any chance, the same type of “lie” sold to you by the prophets of Agenda 21?

You say << stop thinking, believe what we say no matter how ridiculous it is, and give us financial support!>>

Ah, yes David, “indulgences”. Just like the green taxes you seek to impose under the “Pathos” of “This will be good for you”?

Just to be sure that Aristotle’s Rhetoric covers you fully, we have the “Logos” of “here are a few “facts” to impress you”, compliments of the IPCC.

There is something hilarious about people and glass houses. You missed your own hypocrisy, the real irony and the total loss of your embarrassment gene.

Aristotle must have had a stunning intellect to predict utter Pratt’s like you 24 centuries ago.
Posted by spindoc, Friday, 27 December 2013 11:38:45 AM
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Spindoc, congratulations. You have written the first comment on OLO that says nothing! I mean: absolutely nothing!

And what is even more astounding, that you used so many words to say absolutely nothing.

You truly stand in a class of your own. No one can compete with you. You can take the most simple issue and turn it into complete inanity, into high farce.

Like you, I have no idea what your comment was meant to mean. Absolutely none. I read it to my dog. It yawned, then vomited.

But don't give up! Keep trying to put conflicting words together, conflicting ideas.

One day you'll get it right! It might be by accident but who cares?

I don't!
Posted by David G, Friday, 27 December 2013 12:02:50 PM
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Hi David,

Of course it’s over your head. You were never educated, never heard of Greek Scholars, never read books and more importantly, you don’t want to.

Most of what goes on in the world will be meaningless.

Don’t you find it the least bit embarrassing that someone who died 2,400 years ago was more intelligent than you?
Posted by spindoc, Friday, 27 December 2013 1:50:01 PM
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Spindog, I'm so happy you finally found a comic that dealt with Ancient Greece!

Then, ever the illusionist and conman, you aligned yourself with the thinking of brilliant Greek philosophers as though you were part of their brilliance. What a pretentious poser you are!

My dog has far more intelligence than you and he's the dumbest dog I've ever seen. But, unlike you, at least my dog is lovable!

Spindog, there are some very bright people on OLO. Sadly, you're not one of them. People who are bright can join seemingly disparate bits of information, see patterns of human behaviour in them, and draw important conclusions from them.

Spindog, you've never arrived at an important conclusion in your life. In fact, I'll bet your brain, such as it is, is as new as the day you were born.

Why don't you take up collecting toy cars? You'd be a sensation, perhaps even a legend!
Posted by David G, Friday, 27 December 2013 5:42:10 PM
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some ugly truths
http://undergrounddocumentaries.com/constructing-public-opinion/
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 29 December 2013 1:25:41 PM
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