Divine_msn – if a vegan diet is unsuitable for children, pregnant mothers etc, why is that not the position of The American Dietetic Association, who have no link to veganism/animal rights? Once again, their position is that:

‘Appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and … appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.’

What is your evidence that vegan diets are unsuitable for children/pregnant mothers?

In a single word Nick: Experience. Note my earlier comment:

"...I've seen first hand the detrimental effects of a vegan 'lifestyle' on young children. That is the children born to and breastfed by vegan mothers and weaned onto a vegan diet essentially lacking in sufficient proteins fats and some vitamins for infant/child nutrition. This includes significant and irreversible developmental damage - physical and mental."

I'm sure even you won't argue that a balanced vegan diet is far and away more difficult to achieve than omnivorous or vegetarian. Not all vegans have the resources - either availability of suitable foods and/or the knowledge and capacity to understand and DELIVER the DIFFERENT nutritional REQUIREMENTS of growing bodies - including gestating and nursing females.

I'm confident you'd know that the effects of malnutrition on a young child in particular can be devastating and to some extent, irreversible. I've seen it first hand as a result of fruitcake vegan parents who have no idea and certainly do not want to accept their dietary insanity is the cause of their childrens failure to thrive and intellectual lethargy.

I'm sure even you will be able to find a good many references to this sort of problem if you care to research it

Pericles – it seems your use of the term “fundamentalist” is just a way to shut down the debate rather than engaging with the issues. It’s interesting that I’m not called a fundamentalist for rejecting to less popular practices like seal clubbing and dog fighting, but then rejecting more widely accepted industries like the meat and dairy industries gets the fundamentalist label for some reason.

Is Mise – yes many people who claim to be vegetarian aren’t in reality, although I’m unsure why you’d classify people who eat meat at every meal as ‘non-eaters of meat’.

Divine_msn – your experiences show the problems of poorly planned diets/lack of certain nutrients rather than the problems of veganism. Any nutrient that these people were low in could have been obtained from vegan sources – the problem is a badly planned vegan diet rather than a vegan diet. I find it extremely easy to eat a well-planned vegan diet and I know of many vegan mothers who do too.

In terms of research, there are many examples of children fed poor diets – a few of these are vegans, in which case it is often put down to something inherently wrong with vegan diets for kids. Most examples are non-vegan kids, in which case it is just put down to neglect/bad parenting, rather than the problems inherent to feeding kids a non-vegan diet.

You do raise an important issue in terms of access though. It is definitely more difficult for people in low socio-economic areas to eat vegan and have access to healthy foods such as fruits and vegetables generally. This seems to particularly be a problem in the US. The Food Empowerment Project do some great work in addressing this issue and trying to reduce these problems:

http://www.foodispower.org/food-deserts/

However, this is more to do with class rather than veganism being unsuitable at certain times eg pregnancy and childhood. Many people, particularly in Australia, are capable of meeting all of their nutrient requirements at these stages of their lives.

Not so, Nick Pendergrast.

>>Pericles – it seems your use of the term “fundamentalist” is just a way to shut down the debate rather than engaging with the issues. It’s interesting that I’m not called a fundamentalist for rejecting to less popular practices like seal clubbing and dog fighting, but then rejecting more widely accepted industries like the meat and dairy industries gets the fundamentalist label for some reason.<<

In fact, I was using the term to describe someone who is so steeped in their own worldview, that they cannot accept that other views exist. Consequently, they do their utmost to close down the debate - oddly enough, exactly what you accuse me of.

To every observation made here that does not conform to your (let's face it, minority) view, your response is simply "you're wrong".

Also, you are way, way off the mark with your protestation...

>>...most comments so far saying something along the lines of anyone who has ever received any money from the government shouldn’t express an opinion about anything, rather than actually discussing the content of the article.<<

You can express any opinion you like. That is not the issue. It was precisely the content of the article - its poor argumentation, the wandering off-topic, the pointless references to arcane definitions - that was being remarked upon. The observation that you are the product of, and being maintained by, the taxpayer dollar, was very much in the context of "heck, we pay for low-quality material such as this?"

Wear it.

Pericles – I don’t see how disagreeing with views expressed by others here is shutting down the debate. Are you saying that to avoid being a “fundamentalist” I have to automatically change my view because someone presented a different one? I haven’t simply said “you’re wrong” but have tried to respond to the comments and support my arguments with evidence and explanation. Also, regarding me apparently shutting down debate, I haven’t called anyone “fundamentalists” or any other names, spoken about how they earn their living or anything like that – I have just responded to their points.

I haven’t changed my views on this issue because I believe the arguments presented here have not been as strong. You disagree and think it is my arguments that are weak, poorly written etc. People can read my article and these comments and decide which arguments they find the strongest and weakest. I am absolutely aware that other people have different views on this issue to me. However, just because a view has the majority, doesn’t automatically make it right.

nick..what i dislike..about vegan ism
is that all..apples arnt the same [nutritionally]
a vegetable deficient..or saturated..by pollutants..in its medium
or lacking of trace/elements..plus..MUTAGENS gmo..etc

like the virus..used to mutate the food
somehow makes the third generation..sterile..[of those consuming/it]
plus infinite dice rolling[and dont say..that aint..in/ya soy latte*[eh?]

yep thats spinach..yes it has iron
yes its organic..but its going to do the opposite
[ya wanna start..ending meat eating..dont go..guilt[educate]..that grain fed..its pure gmo..poison..[mutagenetic]

free range..[not just let out for show for the cameras]..or in paddock..but wild..[but even then/with heavy metals..poisend earth/wind/water..and biota..its time we got used to the fact..we all die.

get over..trying to live/forever/young
and live it..while you can

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6153&page=0

much..is happening..by..sign..that gives us hope the good guys are on it..media seems to have found its spine..[media is key here]

by subverting spin..inlue of INFO..is how we got here
sothe media must be awoken[?]

media here is key
but too is ARIEL*SHARRON..who has been on..'life support'
read limbo..for near nine years..NINE YEARS..enough his enough..this is how we punish PEACEMAKERS?

why media is key*..is media MAKES US ANGRY*
but also..ENSURES we feel..small.
we cant change.nuthin

WHAT..they are trying to..get us angry
its called divide and con*queer

http://rss.infowars.com/20131124_Sun_Alex.mp3

the beginning..explains the war..between the baddies/the baddies
the middle explains how federal..police are corrupting local police...and how they..assaulted alex..by hurting a child

[they will do much the same..to govt
[recall..goerge/blair/john..REALLY believed satans spin

and note..please..the big ending..is important too
perhaps more..try to focus..on what is said..is federal..is highjacking the other[undrer thee globalist..adgenda

ihave seen protest visions of the future
where we broadcast..pictures [images]..on..buildings
because we ARE there only for colour*

thats what i like about files..you can rewind..to make sure
thats all any needs do..check/confirm..dont act fast..not furious

anyhow the lions lay..with the sheep?
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15820&page=0