The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Time for Australia to recognise Macedonia's legitimate name > Comments

Time for Australia to recognise Macedonia's legitimate name : Comments

By Metodija Koloski, published 12/12/2013

Greece's ethno-nationalist, centrist, populist position jeopardizes the future of Southeast Europe and puts Western democratic ideals and interests at risk.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
Excellent suggestions which Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Foreign Minister Julie Bishop should act upon without any further delays. Australia has not better friend in South East Europe than Macedonia.
Posted by Macedonian advocacy, Thursday, 12 December 2013 11:17:01 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Isn't the problem that true 'Macedonia' actually covers parts of several countries, including Greece? If a country called Kurdestan was proposed the same problem would arise. I don't think Australia should take a position on this - it is an old problem from the old world and we should keep right out of it. If Greeks and Macedonians want to brawl about it, please do so over there, not over here.
Posted by Candide, Thursday, 12 December 2013 11:25:35 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Now that they've changed indentity into "descendents of ancient Macedonians" -- right before the eyes of their bigoted apologists -- time for ethno-centric ultra nationalist fanatics from the former Yugolsavia to be condemned for obvious hostile racist propaganda against Greeks.
Posted by LitaPita, Thursday, 12 December 2013 11:48:17 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Apparently it is "human rights" for FYROM ultra nationalists to attempt to ethnically erase Greeks and use "Macedonian" word games to threaten Greek territory. Amazing how FYROM extremists that try to pawn off ultra nationalism and hate speech as Human rights" seem to have a developed a case of selective memory.

"We are Slavs. There's no connection between us an alexander the Great. " - Kiro Gligorov first elected President of FYROM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_gjBAhak18

In the 1990s,Macedonians speak a language codified in 1946,spoken by less than two million people, and with a very slender literature. They are members of an Orthodox Church whose authority was established by a socialist political regime in 1968.They are heirs to a 1903 revolution that until the 1940s was described by almost all sources as being Bulgarian. - The history of the Balkan Peninsula" Ferdinand Schevill page 432

'We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.' - FYROM'S Ambassador Ljubica Acevshka, speech to US representatives, Washington DC, January 22 1999
Posted by LitaPita, Thursday, 12 December 2013 11:53:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If you love Macedonia so much, could you please go back there and leave us alone?

Signed. Australia.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 12 December 2013 4:06:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Brilliant article!
Australia is a multiculturally diverse country!!
To further re-enforce this, Australia needs to recognise Macedonia by its constitutional name of Republic of Macedonia ASAP!
Posted by DJole, Thursday, 12 December 2013 6:08:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Neither Venizelos nor any member of the Greek government has ever proposed the insulting name "Slavo-Albanian Macedonia. This is obviously false information intended to cause mischief. People are foolish if they want to believe this bit of nonsense.

The Greek proposal is "Upper Macedonia" or "New Macedonia" or some such qualifier. The Greeks accept they do not have a monopoly on the name Macedonia, but neither does the ROM have a monopoly of the name of a region which lies mostly in Greece.

The Greeks do not object to "Macedonian identity" or culture. They object to ROM's use of figures that have no historical, geographic or linguistic connection to the Republic of Macedonia, but, rather, are part of the Ancient Greek-speaking world.
Posted by Alfred di Genis, Thursday, 12 December 2013 10:42:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Alfred,

If the greeks do not object to the macedonian identity and culture, why do they not recognise them as a official minority in Agean Macedonia?? (today's Northern Greece). Why do they not allow public teaching of their macedonian mother tongue??

I'm not sure if you are aware, but Macedonia was divided 100 years under the bucharest treaty, of which 51% was partitioned to Greece, as part of the spoils of war. The macedonians were the indigineous people who inhabited this region for 1000's of years. They spoke macedonian, they identified as macedonian, their tradition and culture was macedonian.
Much like the aboriginals of Australia... For example if the dark skinned aboriginals inhabited macedonia and then were occupied by greece, could the greeks claim they are now greek? do they look greek?

My parents left Agean Macedonia in the 40's as did many other macedonians during the greek civil war. My parents were forced to talk greek/names changed to sound greek as part of the ethnic cleansing process, if they spoke macedonian they were punished by greek authority. Supporters of the greek lobby basically support the neo nazi party in greece who's ideal's are much like that of hitler's, in pursuing the extermination of the minorities in greece, including the hundred's of thousands of maceodonian's who still live in today's northern greece(i still have relatives there).

A big chunk of the artifacts of ancient macedonia lie in Agean macedonia (today's northern greece), although some are found in ROM . These belong to the indiginous macedonians of the land (the same blood relatives of the people of today's ROM), but the greeks now claim alexander the great is now greek due to these artifacts/evidence being geographically located in greece, due to macedonia's division in 1913. So if i stole your car, sure the car is now mine, but am i the rightful owner of it? No.

Anyway, ill leave you with this fact. HISTORY IS WRITTEN, AND THEN RE-WRITTEN BY THE VICTORS'..............
Posted by DJole, Friday, 13 December 2013 12:51:49 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Also,

Alexander was bilingual, his first language was macedonian, as he was macedonian, but may have spoke some greek as a method of communicating with greeks. i.e. say im german and speak german as a first language, but also speak english.. does that now mean i am english and not german? DNA tests show evidence that the macedonians of ROM have a direct descent from alexander the great.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-220.html

http://vimeo.com/58926054
Posted by DJole, Friday, 13 December 2013 12:55:18 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi RJ Dole:

The only officially recognised minority in Greece is the "Muslim minority" of Pomaks and Turks. There are other minorities in Greece though they are not officially recognised. There are minorities in many countries, in the USA, in Canada, in Germany, in the UK, and many other countries, that do not have official recognition. Greece is no different in that respect.

The Bucharest Treaty did not "divide Macedonia." All the Bucharest Treaty did was recognise the military facts on the ground: which part of the Ottoman region had been conquered by the Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks. The Bucharest Treaty merely agreed to the cessation of hostilities between these powers. Your "problem" is not the treaty. The "problem" is which power had won which territory through war.

The region of Macedonia under the Ottomans was inhabited by slavic-speakers, Turks, Greek-speakers, Albanians and others. The Slavic-speakers were divided by national identities of Bulgarians and Serbs. A "Macedonian" national consciousness began to emerge in writings during the very late 19th century especially by some writers who had previously (and intermittently) considered themselves Bulgarians.

As you know, Slavic-speaking partisans had fought with guerillas of the Greek Communist party during the civil war in order to separate the Greek region of Macedonia and create an "Autonomous Republic." The Greek victors in the civil war expelled many of these fighters and their families while many of these fighters fled in fear of reprisals. The Greeks can be as guilty of injustice as anyone else, and if anyone has legal legal grievances against the Greek state, there are many European and international courts in which they can seek restitution.

The Ancient, Greek-speaking kingdom of Macedonia, through the conquests of Alexander, spread and established Greek culture and language throughout the eastern Mediterranean of that time and established the Hellenistic Age is is a major period of scholarly history. You can access literally thousands of text books and university classes on that period easily.

Thank you for your reply.
Posted by Alfred di Genis, Friday, 13 December 2013 2:30:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@ RJ DOLE:

The history of the ancient world, including the long period of the ancient Greeks, is universally recognised and studied in countries across the world from Canada to China, from Rowanda to Russia. It is based on recognised scholarship and not written by "victors" or losers. There are constant discoveries and interpretations of subtlety but these depend on the acknowledged rules and merits of established scholarship.
Posted by Alfred di Genis, Friday, 13 December 2013 2:40:41 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Oh, jeeeez, not more multicultural baggage.

Before Alexander, the Ancient Greeks regarded the Macedonians as non-Greek barbarians, everyone loves a winner.
Posted by mac, Friday, 13 December 2013 6:56:25 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@ Mac:

How the "ancient Greeks" (all of them?) regarded the Macedonians, Spartans, Athenians and others is amply and diversely recorded. They spent most of their existence hating and fighting each other.

What is also broadly recorded is that the Greek-speaking Macedonians made arguably the greatest contribution to Greek culture and language when they established both throughout the Mediterranean world after the conquests of Alexander. In scholarly history throughout the world this is known as the Hellenistic Age which preserved and extended the art, language and culture of the Greek-speaking "classical"period. That is the Macedonian and Alexander's contribution to western civilization and that is why both are part of the formal study of the ancient world.
Posted by Alfred di Genis, Friday, 13 December 2013 7:26:33 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Alfred,

Appreciate your reply.

I do feel feel sorry for you however, that you will go through your whole life reading and believing this non sense...
When I'm telling you my own parents' actual life experience was that they were forced from their home and country (as kids btw) for being macedonian... But according to you they were freedom fighters... Jeeez

Can we agree to disagree? I do not want to argue.
I just want my country of origin of Macedonia recognised by Australia officially.
It's incredibly offensive an discriminatory being called a skopjan or fyromanian...

I just wish we could all get along and live in peace.
Posted by DJole, Friday, 13 December 2013 2:15:46 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Alfred di Genis,

Yes, I understand how Alexander's conquests spread Greek culture, and from a Western perspective it was a positive development. However, the Persians, Egyptians, Babylonians and the populations of what is now Afghanistan, Western India and Pakistan probably would have had a quite different opinion of Alexander and his invading armies at the time, and probably didn't really care about the benefits of Hellenisation.

My point was simply, as long as high explosives aren't used, who cares about yet another Balkan squabble?
Posted by mac, Friday, 13 December 2013 2:35:25 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
All this over the words 'Former Yugoslav'?

Nobody in Australia is denying Macedonia the right to go by its own name. I don't think I have ever referred to myself as coming from the Commonwealth of Australia, or having been born in the Republic of Zimbabwe. I'm struggling to understand how a little-used 'official' name really impacts on somebody's life.

Out of interest, have similar pushes been made to the IOC? They seem to keep the FYR in the name.

http://www.olympic.org/the-former-yugoslav-republic-of-macedonia

So does FIFA:

http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=mkd/index.html

So does the UN:

http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml

This isn't to say that it is right - but the FYR prefix seems to have considerable legitimacy in international organisations, so it doesn't seem to me like something Australia 'must' change.
Posted by Otokonoko, Friday, 13 December 2013 2:50:48 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Come on mate, its ancient history, & not worth getting your knickers in a knot over.

What are you? If you're supposed to be an Ozzie, do get over historical mistakes.

Tell you what. Stop worrying about it & I promise I won't call Republic of Macedonia, LATE FOR LUNCH.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 13 December 2013 3:58:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy