I don't share your optimism that a survey conducted by an advertising industry has any value to anyone other than the advertising industry.

>>Many of the commentators attacked the white paper because it has been done by a marketing company but marketing companies like M&C Saatchi only get paid for being right.<<

But "right" in what context, Mr Marsh?

It is not much of a stretch to suggest that the aim of marketing - which is to sell more products to more people - is not necessarily identical, or even close, to, say, a study of men's mental health. The questions would be different, would they not.

And there are always problems, selecting random quotes out of context to illustrate a point.

>>The philosopher Thoreau said, "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation."<<

But Thoreau also said,

"If a man believes and expects great things of himself, it makes no odds where you put him, or what you show him ... he will be surrounded by grandeur."

Only one of the above can possibly justify imagining that the path to improvement in men's lot would be government intervention, or, as you put it...

>>the desperate need for government action on positive male policies<<

Oh, please.

When has government intervention in the social sphere done anything except create even more barriers to communication between ordinary people? Especially when it glorifies in the title "positive discrimination."

http://orthosphere.org/2013/11/20/vainglory-hatred/

"Zippy Catholic succinctly and precisely explains the source and basis of liberal hate in three short posts, which should be read in the following order:

1. Definition of Liberalism.
2. Liberalism and the destruction of the good, the true, and the beautiful.
3. Why feminists think all men are rapists.

Sunshine Mary tries to answer the question: Why do feminists tend to be emotionally volatile, obsessive, violent, and hysterical? Her discussion applies equally to liberals of all sorts." Kristor

And why does feminism so spectacularly serve the ideology of central government market-state? Even the Guardian has twigged. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/14/feminism-capitalist-handmaiden-neoliberal

Why does destroying natural differences, the slash and burn of the complex diversity of the social ecology, so spectacularly serve liberal new ruling class libido dominandi? Why know scrutiny of their god-term 'equality'; why does central gov. expand its scope and power by absorbing the government of the household into itself - logically feed state sponsored misandry?

I understand the bureaucracy can even conscript the military [Colonel David Hay] into its white ribbon feminism projects. :) Wagga Wagga 16 day activism :violence against women distortion.

Men need to protect themselves from the hideous conformism of the late-stage democratic despotism, and the New Ruling Class [Nick Cater]. http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2013/04/tocqueville-for-tax-day/

The ABCALPGreensNewRulingClass types are striving to ensure there is no such thing as virtue(self government), a living wage with opportunities for household economies, male headship and female submission in truth and love (government of household), so as to assimilate these spheres of authority into itself - using our taxes

In reference to Pericles who has pointed out some valid deficiencies of my argument in the very first post. I too had profound mistrust of the whitepaper by M&C Saatchi when I was first contacted for an interview towards the very end of the project.

I admit its flaws but it is more than worth the read. I would be very interested in your considered opinion. Happy to send a full copy to you if you give me an email address. Send to info@fatherhood.org.au

As I pointed out such research is usually kept undercover but the Chief researcher who has worked for a number of years in the not for profit sector seems to have a soft spot for men and the challenges they face and she flatly told management she would only do the project if they would share it openly with Australia as means of helping give men a voice. It is to their credit that they agreed.

Thoreau said some great things and your quote from him shows your appreciation for his many splendored thoughts. Regarding your healthy skepticism of Government thank you for your rebuke. Trust in Government is often misplaced so I agree.

Having said that just having the government acknowledge a problem can energise others to unite to take action to turn the tide of both Fatherlessness and one of its many offspring which is male suicide.

Thank you again for your carefully worded criticism. I am sure I need it.

I appreciate the offer, Martin Warwick...

>>I admit its flaws but it is more than worth the read. I would be very interested in your considered opinion. Happy to send a full copy to you if you give me an email address<<

...but I did actually look through the four promotional slides before I wrote my post. It was the sub-title that M&CSaatchi themselves gave it - "Man guide for Brands" - that suggested to me that I would find little of non-marketing interest in it. Having said that, I do not doubt that is a good read. They are professionals, after all.

Marketing professionals.

This isn't the experience I have had.

Men deal with a wider range of relationships and ambitions than this author.
His seems stuck in the one dimensional world of family, partner and children.
Which is mostly the prefered experience of most of the women I have met.

Men I know live richer and more varied lives than that singular focus. Most don't talk about it especially to people like the author. They just could not understsnd the ability of men to deal with a greater complexity of relationships than their limited exprerience.

My most romantic moment was talking with my part time lover of 40 years on her death bed. I asked her if she regretted we had never lived together or married.
She cuddled me and said 'no, we had had wonderfully full lives apart and when we had met we had had another honey moon.

We had both had many relationship, married others and had had children with others.

Oh, dear. The poor modern menz - ripped to shreds by feminist harpies, deprived of their kids, taken to the cleaners by the vengeful ex, terrified to speak lest they cop the 's' word. Can't even admire a woman's tits anymore.

I always notice these sensitive exposes on the modern male never really say or do anything that gives men permission to look at how their invisible privilege has been screwing up not just their own lives but their own societies - indeed the world - for millennia.

If ever such a study were to take place, apart from falling over backwards from shock, I'd actually be tempted to make some serious comments instead of cynical feminist sneers.

Suffice to say, this is the same old same old lament that women just fail to grasp the simple truth that they were merely put on this earth to make men happy.