hi bob..your/quote<<..Breaking out of the straitjacket..imposed by church hierarchies..and restrictive creeds,>>

lets make this a case in point

just our lives/loves/hates..is the real..miracle
why accept the delusion..of christ giving drunks booze
or of 5 fish..or 7..or a few loaves..of breaD CAN FEED 5000

these two examples..of miracles..
can only happen..in..the minds of the ignorant

you will of course be aware..that back in..those times..mealtime lasted near 4 hours..and that a special ritual..[doctrine off clean-hands..[via the rite of hand washing..[in 7 jars]..stages..reflecting the accent into heaven.. was deemed vital..

its clear jesus apostles..knew not of the ritual/creed[as revealed by the eating of the shewbread[with..un-cleanhands..revealed]..regardless
FOR THE TRUE BELIEVERS..to eat with..unclean hands was unthinkable

[so sitting them opposite each other..on a dusty hill..hours walking time away from these ESSENTIAL[for thhe rite][ie handwash jars..ENSURES FEW IF ANY..would eat..anything.[but in the spirit of the occasion..will offer..any food/they themselves couldst not eat]

the real teaching was..that people ARE SO FIXATED..
by the rote/ritual..they..miss the messiah..for the dead trees[imagery]

anyhow withour mind full of imagery..
lets go back and see..the wedding at cana

seven basins of progressivly cleaner water..but
regardless..the end wash basin..is still filthy..still essentially toil-et water

would you seve..even..the best wine
from a toilet?

neither did the servants..!
on jesus saying..its not my time..[in fact i couldnt care less..if you gave your masters guests..that there toilet water..?

the servants did what any servant..[unwilling for his mater to lose face would do..and gave the weeding guests the masters best plonk.

having drunk already the bought booze..there were drunks
just like today..too many are drunk..on fear hate anger hurt [all them fears you noted

but you fear mindlessly
[without regarding gods living loving infinitude's]

jesus dont give booze to drunks..[KNOW THIS FOR CERTAIN}

but the issue is much clearer..on the mount..
[but only..to those knowing/the dangers of fixated creed]

i..know its tempting to..add..feed the hungry
but there..is no food shortage..nor any other shortage
there is only..a shortage of the means..to pay..for the needed service

thats why i saw the solution..of revv 22;2
created gods money system..but no one cares or gives a damm

its called wikiseed/wikigeld
its real-money..[once some church says it is
its based on..the seed..from the tree of life..seed you can eat

or you can distill..into..fuel
even..make clothing from[in fact the true fruits of hemp-seed=35,000
thats even..more than the 12 mentioned in revelations..the design..on the mount..revealed..the tree..and lest we forget genesis 1;28/29

i..give you every SEED/bearing plant
but creed has made you all deaf dumb..and blind
thats what will hurt all of mankind..if things dont change fast

it just needs you to set up the bank
and our christian bank..will go..out..and feed the world

but first..you..need to awake
satans lies run deep

this video..sums it up
in..under 3 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhXTolQ9SLE

'you shall..hear of wars..and rumors off wars'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJIeU46BijM

what means..war..to the peace bringer?
banking crimes..the money changers
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/bankersinonechunk.php

http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/the-left-right-paradigm-is

Jon J writes:
"I wonder how those 'theologians' who have been assimilated by Prof Borg reconcile the idea of progress with the firm conviction that Rules for Everything were laid down by a magic carpenter and his fairy dad nearly 2000 years ago ...

Either you eat your own dog food or you don't, Bob. If you don't, you're just an atheist in disguise. ..."

Jon J has in mind a use of the Christian tradition that requires belief in selected parts of the Bible, as interpreted by centuries of dogmatic overlay. Such a belief was pressed on me by my family and by the religious communities of my early years. I have long since come to reject the often contradictory claims that were thus pressed on me.

One can find in the Bible a coherent belief system only on an interpretative overlay in which St Paul and John of Patmos trump all that went before. In particular, St Paul trumps Ecclesiastes, Amos and St James, and even a large part of the claimed sayings of Jesus. I reject the supremacy of St Paul, and I reject all such dogmatic uses of Christian literature. But I remain in a strong sense a product of a tradition in which the Bible and Christian writers have a large place. The often incoherent answers are no longer credible, for me as for Bob. The questions do however remain, and their importance is undiminished.

Am I a member of the Christian tradition? Yes! Am I an atheist? I do not believe in any of the Gods that are on offer. Does that make me an atheist? Why should the "Bible-believing" evangelicals determine how the Christian tradition is to be used?

doctor/john/quote..<<..Am I a member of the Christian tradition?>>

the statements you made..would..refute..it
but i was the root..of all your later beliefs/disbeliefs

yet..you much like the agnistic jew..
are of the christain tradition*..no longer of its faiths[yet till subject to its miss-creation's]

buiti see you replyyour own questions

<<..Yes!
Am I an atheist?>>

only you can..know what you are
but know..[you are more than a lable]

<<..I do not believe in any/of the Gods that are on offer.>>

as runner would rightly point out...you are god
[its not..what we think..god to be..but that god gave us a choice..to live like we want to be]

<<..does that make you an atheist>>

only you can decide what is true for you
id say agnostic..by each of the options..include its antithesus
[ie thiest/gnostic]..both relious terms..[not god terms/qualities]

your specific title..would need include the god qualities you reject

atheos=no gods at all
alog0-ic=rejects the concept of logus[god logic]
if you reject god giving and sustaining all living..please present proof of how you are doing this[or how science says its doing it]

thing is natural/nature/nurture..are all god or self selection
thus not science selection

<<..Why should the "Bible-believing" evangelicals
determine how the Christian tradition is to be used?>>

the squeaky wheel demands the lucra
by any means they can..

[evil..has more passion..to do its vile

A response to 'under one god'.

I do wish you would make some minimal effort to proofread your comments. The mis-typings and random insertions of extra letters makes them almost unintelligible. There is a well-engineered 'preview' facility. Why not use it?