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The Forum > Article Comments > IR reform - return to the Dark Ages > Comments

IR reform - return to the Dark Ages : Comments

By Carla Lipsig-Mumme, published 12/10/2005

Carla Lipsig-Mumme argues John Howard's industrial relations changes spell a return to the law of the jungle.

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If the system will act as you suggest, won't it benefit the unemployed and pensioners? Anything that cuts penalty rates and keeps inflation down is good for retirees. From time to time retirees have to take a cut in living standards when interest rates are reduced, so why is it unacceptable for the workers to take a cut sometimes? It is obvious to any thinking person that due to the end of the age of cheap oil, living standards for workers must decline over the next few years. This new system should achieve this necessary decline without the angst that would be inevitable under the present system.
Posted by plerdsus, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 11:21:47 AM
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And I love the ads on TV at the moment that we're paying for, telling us what rights we still have.

Oh cool, we still have that right! That's cool of them. Oh, we still have that one too? Great, thanks for letting us know! Isn't it great how the government is spending our money in order to let us know that we still have some rights left? What a great country!

To me these ads are the exceptions that test the rule. If they have to explicitely mention these rights, it suggests there are other ones they are not mentioning. Otherwise, they would just say: 'You still have all the rights you previously did!' But they obviously can't do that. Instead they say: 'You still have this right and that right!' Well, clearly it's all fine then! I'm sure that brochure you're offering out is completely unbiased, too.

And isn't it great that in a corporate world so reliant on advertising and marketing, that the biggest spender on advertisements in the country is our government. Can anyone else think of a better way to spend our tax dollars? I didn't think so. Everythings fine the way it is. Except for whatever change they're advertising of course.
Posted by spendocrat, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 11:21:52 AM
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What is so bloody sacred about Sundays - try working as a journalist - you actually have to work Sundays and there is only a 20 per cent penalty - not double time.

The same with public holidays. But it is a trade off for other things.

There are lots of jobs where weekend work is required. We live in a secular society you know (separation of Church and State) so the sabbath is no longer sacred. Very few people use it for going to church.

Why should a small business owner have to pay double time on Sundays to a student who can only work on Sundays because of studies. Surely 100 bucks a day is better than nothing. Or better yet, the business can hire two people rather than pay double time.

There is nothing wrong with negotiating - I have worked four ten hour days before rather than five 8 hour days because it meant I got an extra day with the kids. some people might want to spread there work over six days.

These reforms are not the end of the world.

t.u.s.
Posted by the usual suspect, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 12:16:36 PM
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See Comment #3 in "Not Radical Change" by Mike Nahan (above).
Posted by Perseus, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 12:23:52 PM
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True there is nothing wrong with working Sundays - provided you get some other day off when your kids are home from school so you actually get to see them.
I think that's what people are scared of with these new reforms - that the ones with all the power (employers, high-end employees such as CEOs, MDs etc) in order to ensure their own family life continues uninterrupted, can dictate to others when they work without giving them the same consideration. And honestly tell me that the business owner is going to work a Sunday so his cashier can have the weekend off?

Even given the cost of filling a position, P, if you can then force more work for less pay after the initial outlay I can't see the problems for employers really?
Even the same productivity without meal allowance, shoe allowance, leave loading, or whatever is protected in the current award which won't necessarily be included (almost certainly WON'T be included as the employer is likely to write an AWA which suits them....then just force you to 'take it or leave it') in the new system, is a cost saver long term.
I wouldn't be so sure that the ones who elect to 'leave it' won't be replaced in a heartbeat by scab labour who WILL work for a bowl of rice and a rotten fish.

I can't see any other option - why pay more than you have to? That would be foolish fiscal policy and you'd have some 'splainin to do to the shareholders as to why they could only afford ONE Mercedes this year and no yacht!

The assumption all the scaremongering is based on is human greed - I think it's a pretty safe assumption!
Ever heard the old saying "...and that's how they stay rich!" ? Never more true.
Posted by Newsroo, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 1:37:38 PM
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Newsroo, if you seriously think small business owners or CEOs and managers are working just 38 hours a week, you have no idea and it is probably not worth trying to debate.

Your average small business owner spends at least 60 hours a week running their business - this included doing the books at night when the shop is not open and working weekends in many cases. and that doesn't include the time it takes to recruit new staff, as Perseus alluded to.

As for high level executives - it is not all golf and luncheons, they work very hard. You would probably consider my father a high level executive but he works damn hard. at least 10 hours monday to friday, plus work from home on the weekends and he still finds time to serve on P and C associations and be president of a football club and look after his four kids.

Even working in middle management roles there is work you do at home which is not even paid for, let alone given penalties.

Greed works for both employers and employees - the minimum wage is adequate to live off with shelter and food and clothing, its the extras people want such as the DVDs and TVs which makes it harder to budget.
At least small business people have put up the capital and taken a risk to feed their greed in addition to the mammoth hours they put in.
And young people, as unfortunate as it is, have only got their labour to offer - how can you expect to demand high wages and terrific conditions when you have no skills, no experience and no qualifications. They may start on the minimum but hard work will earn them trust, give them experience and let them prove themselves in the long run.

You have to start somewhere - very few people walk straight into there dream job on $100,000 straight out of high school. The new changes are incentive to work hard and not to waste opportunities such as education and training.

t.u.s.
Posted by the usual suspect, Wednesday, 12 October 2005 2:04:09 PM
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