The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Tall ships need taller humanity on boat people > Comments

Tall ships need taller humanity on boat people : Comments

By Joseph Wakim, published 9/10/2013

As boat after boat arrived on their shores, perhaps their elders saw the disruption, diseases and destruction to their ancient civilisation. Perhaps they dreamt that they could stop these boats.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. All
Willem,
"Left" and "Right" are part of the one value system, they are based on the same core principles and there's no such thing as National feeling in that set of values.
Australia is one of the great egalitarian/ Liberal projects there can't be any social changes within the bubble of a closed system such as the one we live under.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 1:25:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Jay, how can there be no 'national feeling'? We have a general sense of what a Kenyan or German might we, even if not all Kenyans and Germans are like that. Surely when we fly the flag, the ships come sailing under the harbour bridge and when one of our athletes lift a gold medal in the air at the Olympics we feel pride and joy at having something in common. One might argue that what we have in common is elusive and ever changing, but it is still there. And what I understand from conservatives is that they don't want their albeit vague definition of being Australian to change too much too soon. That fear is unmistakable. And no amount of appeal to humanitarian values is going to really address that. Somehow the issue of national identity needs to be thrashed about in public debate. The great egalitarian/libertarian values won't win the day unless they are 'sold' as a carrier of, yes, national identity. That's just the reality as I see it.
Posted by Willem, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 2:32:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Willem.
The conservatives are worried that Liberal values are under threat from immigration, it's a position based on beliefs not facts, Liberalism is unassailable in this country.
Australia has been intentionally developed as a cosmopolitan society, national feeling and national unity has never had a place in that scheme, the only reason it's not been a hot issue to date is because there's never been a serious threat to cosmopolitanism or multiculturalism.
There are no Australian Nationalists, the very idea is ludicrous, how can you build a national movement from a cosmopolitan society?
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 3:41:16 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I vote Lego post "Post of the week" someone calling himself LEGO pulling a no true Scotsman argument.

Cognitive discordance doesn’t go far enough.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 4:27:54 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
England embraced the refugees and now are a world headquaters for Islamic terrorism. Such a compassionate approach which has set up chaos for future generations.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 4:35:25 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Jay,

<<The conservatives are worried that Liberal values are under threat from immigration, it's a position based on beliefs not facts, Liberalism is unassailable in this country.>>

You seem to be confusing between 'Conservative' and 'Liberal': conservatives would more likely be worried that immigration may bring with it more liberalism than they are comfortable with, rather than less.

Personally I believe that the present boat-crisis has nothing to do with conservatism and/or liberalism and/or nationalism and/or compassion: instead, it is an accident of pure opportunism:

While in opposition, Abbott identified in Labor's inconsistent/failed policies an opportunity to gain political power. He (wrongly) assumed that Australians care so much about boats/immigration that this policy of "stopping the boats" would be his make-or-break policy for getting elected. In the end, he did win the elections, but for unrelated reasons. By now however, he has climbed a tree too high and doesn't know how to climb down - nor would I expect a man of honour to go back on his promises.

A new and unforeseen development occurred since: Tasmania has opened its arms and is happy to receive all refugees.

This way everyone can be happy, with a new type of visa that allows refugees to live and work in Tasmania indefinitely but not on the mainland. Holders of this visa should not receive commonwealth welfare, but may instead receive donations from individuals and charities that care for them. What to do with the boats would become an internal Tasmanian rather than a commonwealth issue.

We cannot expect Abbott to accept the Tasmanian solution or else he would become just like Juliar. The best is therefore for him to step down and allow the coalition to bring in someone else, like Turnbull, who is not bound by that tragic promise.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 7:09:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy