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What do transgenders really need? : Comments
By Roslyn Phillips, published 27/9/2013It is not true to say gender is a spectrum, a continuum, and the elements of it change through life.
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This is a soundly reasoned position by R Phillips. There is no doubt that gender dysphoria is a deeply distressing psychological condition and in some people may be intractable as far as contemporary therapeutic knowledge is concerned. It is deeply regrettable that the development of psychological therapy in this area has been significantly derailed by the application of a surgical procedure to rectify a psychological condition. This approach was always doomed to failure and was always unethical. It involves the mutilation of a physically healthy person, the destruction of normal healthy organs. In addition the patient is exposed to all of the risks attendant on surgery. Unnecessary surgery is always rejected on ethical and medical grounds except in the case of sexual reassignment. R Philips exposes well the fallacies upon which such surgery has been justified by medical professionals who should know better.
Posted by John I Fleming, Friday, 27 September 2013 8:31:12 AM
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Those who thought they loved someone, thought they were homosexual and are now happily married with children, and now those surgically unsexed who undergo surgery to turn them back! these are reported hundreds of times less than examples that give a platform to the state-market ideology. Who are these people that are so transparent to themselves and their heart's motivations? They're the ones who are a mystery to me.
I can't think of a worse thing to do than keep going in the insane direction of mutilating surgery. We have rational psychology, something like CBT doing great work http://www.conradbaars.com/ The sandy moral 'foundation' that supports the metastisisng superstructure of global money and its political and metaphysical liberalism attacks wherever it can: -tradition as source of humanising and genuine autonomy 'ready made inheritance of wisdom' outside plutocratic manipulation. http://www.kirkcenter.org/index.php/detail/ten-conservative-principles/ -nature and our correlative human nature as the source of understanding of human flourishing -Christianity rather than therapeutic 'the Self' religion http://www.iamsecond.com/ -Aristotelian-Thomistic philosophical realism as thought that has been thought through about the world as directly encountered.http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/materialist-shell-game.html Again money will flow to promoting 'trans this and that' and these post-modern groups will eat each other as competing sovereign selves like the lesbian groups accused of 'transphobia'. They mean to take away language, the body, and moral norms and replace them with the rule of money and power. Permaculturalists pay attention to nature and design why can't we? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWtsrNuUAgE&feature=youtu.be Posted by Martin Ibn Warriq, Friday, 27 September 2013 9:46:58 AM
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If the author is arguing that there is no genetic cause of homosexuality, then that is probably right?
There does not seem to be a genetic disposition to homosexuality or heterosexuality? However, it is simply wrong to simply assume that hormones play no part. We all start life in the womb as female, and owe our apparent sex to the flood of sex altering or sex maintaining hormones, in the first few weeks of our development in the womb. It is possible that this flood could be overdone or incomplete, because of some physiological fault or flaw in the mother; or, a serious problem in the mother's environment? Further, our sexual attraction is entirely autonomous and controlled by just four centres at the base of the brain. Two for blokes and two for women. In a well researched and published case in Scotland, a thrice convicted pedophile was found to be firing on all four. When the two inappropriate for his gender were burnt out, using tiny electrodes inserted directly into the brain, his aberration not only ceased, but in the space of around 12 months, he reverted to a typical heterosexual male, got married had a couple of kids, and was reportedly, never ever happier! And there are other examples were a physical injury to the base of the brain has altered the gender bias! With one well reported Alpha male Sydney footballer, suffered a neck injury in a scum, turned gay over a period of around twelve months, and now works as a hairdresser! Of course many of the fondest theories of theorists are going to be disproved! That is because they are and remain just theories; or, the proponents have condemned themselves to a lifetime of wasted effort or inconclusive results, as they determinedly think within a fixed circle of ideas? Or dismiss empirical evidence, simply because it is, according to them, empirical? [Thinking confined by ideological or extremely flawed religious belief?] And if the ideas are limited, so also are the entire sum of the available conclusions! Rhrosty. Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 27 September 2013 11:08:25 AM
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What transgenders need is to be believed!
Our sexual orientation is entirely autonomous, and not something we any of us can consciously control or alter! I mean, I don't have a homosexual bone in my body, and if anyone tried to put one in there. My first and instinctive response, would be to knock their ivories so far down their throat, their posterior parts, would resemble a piano keyboard! Transgenders also need some serious research by those willing to set aside their indoctrinated medieval or stone age belief systems, and simply search for and find the actual provable truth! Regardless of how personally unpalatable that may be for them. Or how conflicting that may be, with their personal religious scruples/bias! If they would do just that much, who knows, we might even find we are able to eventually and actually, permanently cure/alter, so called sexual aberrations? Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 27 September 2013 11:27:27 AM
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We are not talking about ideals here, right? If we were, then schools would teach their students to set aside their sexuality and be celibate, in word thought and deed, directing their energy to a higher purpose. But neither schools nor children and their parents are currently ready for this, especially since no higher alternative is provided and due to the lack of competent teachers who can provide a personal example.
Given that sexuality, in the absence of higher aspirations, seems so important today, that most people truly believe that the fulfilment of their life is in sex, some way or another, then everyone should be able to experiment to their heart's content, experiencing both the pleasure and the pain that result, looking at sexuality from every possible angle until they finally prove to themselves that it is not the answer to their life's quest. In this quest to find and resolve the root of sexuality, everything goes (so long as no others are hurt in the process)! Experimentation is second-best only to competent spiritual guidance, so in the absence of the latter, or when no trust is given to it, exploration and experimentation should be fully embraced, sex-change being no exception. If you manage to learn just this one lesson in life, then your life has not been in vain. Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 27 September 2013 12:55:21 PM
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A person can have a dramatic and imposing psychological condition and not be mentally ill, most psychopaths for example are not technically "sick" in a medical sense but they definitely have an abnormal mental state
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Friday, 27 September 2013 1:10:11 PM
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Pedantic as usual - good old time father-knows-best applied values.
http://spiritlessons.com/passionofchristpictures.htm http://zakherys.tripod.com/greven.htm http://www.psychohistory.com The truth about everybodies favorite "conservative" father http://www.psychohistory.com/reagan/rcontent.htm It was no accident that Feddy Krueger (Nightmare On Elm Street) appeared during the "golden years" of Reagan's presidency. Freddy was Reagan's alter ego. Reagan began the process of really cutting up the future - the kind of futureless future described by Henry Giroux. Freddy was doing it symbolically on the movie screen. Speaking of Edward Feser and his uber-pretentious Thomistic know-all-ism this reference describes him perfectly http://www.americanloons.blogspot.com/2011/01/1285-edward-feser.html Feser is of course very much associated with and a booster of the toxic world-view described by Henry Giroux, and which gave the world what is desribed here: http://www.logosjournal.com/hammer_kellner Posted by Daffy Duck, Friday, 27 September 2013 1:43:52 PM
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Hon. John-Paul Langbroek, Qld Minister for Education presides over the worst school system in Australia, yet is priority is to condone/fund policies that will (a) force girls to share toilets with boys, whether parents and schools like it or not; (b) further gag free speech of parents who object; (c) override parents' powers to decide what's best for their kids and (d) expose children with gender dysphoria to increased harm risks. Mr Langbroek downplayed his actions by claiming the transgender school toilet policy spruiked by his Deputy DG Ms Petrea Walton, is merely a restatement of existing Qld Education Department policies. Mr Langbroek cannot distance himself from these radical, unscientific and freedom-destroying policies. He should search out and scrap them and let parents and schools decide what's best in line with LNP philosophy.
Posted by Tempe Harvey, Friday, 27 September 2013 3:15:42 PM
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oh dear really
Posted by Cobber the hound, Friday, 27 September 2013 4:23:43 PM
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1. Transgenderism is yet another non-issue generated by the Left, particularly as it affects only 1 in 10,000 people. No doubt this will "increase" as it becomes increasingly popular.
2. Schools should stay out of social engineering, period. 3. Politicians should stay away - nothing for you here 4. You can't change your gender unless you change the definition of the word gender, which is currently being undertaken by lefty sociology depts. Posted by Atman, Saturday, 28 September 2013 10:19:07 AM
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Make up your mind atman: is transgender a fabrication or is it a rare but real condition? I'd opt for the latter, given that cases involving children are taken very seriously and are often decided in the courts with expert advice. I don't think it is a 'left issue' just a human one, which seems to be more in the news because people are generally more accepting of difference these days.
Posted by Candide, Saturday, 28 September 2013 12:26:56 PM
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I'd opt for the latter,
Candide, Knowing literally nothing about this I imagine it is very similar to homosexuals & lesbians. It is kept in the closet until someone ventures out out & people realise there's a great opportunity for bleating some disadvantage or other & expect special consideration with, of course, special privileges as well. Posted by individual, Saturday, 28 September 2013 9:16:05 PM
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The author wrote "Similarly, although the incidence of transgenderism is much lower than same-sex attraction, twin studies show that the condition is not genetic per se."
Which studies would these be, then? Because the actual, not made up, studies say something quite different. Transsexuality Among Twins: Identity Concordance, Transition, Rearing, and Orientation, Diamond M, International Journal of Transgenderism, 14:1, May 2013, pp 24-38 -- The relative contributions of genetic and environmental factors to the development of gender identity have been debated. Twins were studied that are concordant or discordant for gender identity status in order to provide clarification of this issue. An extensive library search yielded reports of 27 male and 16 female sets concordant or discordant for transsexuality. An Internet bulletin board search and clinical contact requests for participants in a survey of twins in which one or both transitioned located 69 new twin pairs. In addition to asking about matters associated with gender, these new twins were asked about their transition, rearing, and sexual practices. Combining data from the present survey with those from past-published reports, 20% of all male and female monozygotic twin pairs were found concordant for transsexual identity. This was more frequently the case for males (33%) than for females (23%). The responses of our twins relative to their rearing, along with our findings regarding some of their experiences during childhood and adolescence show their identity was much more influenced by their genetics than their rearing.-- Posted by Zoe Brain, Saturday, 28 September 2013 10:43:21 PM
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An earlier work reviewed hormonal vs genetic factors.
Gender Identity Concordance Among Monozygotic and Dizygotic Twin Pairs, Diamond M, Abstract for World Professional Association for Transgender Health Symposium, Atlanta, GA. 24-28 Sept. 2011 -- The relative contributions of genetic and other factors to the development of gender identity are still being debated. We studied twins, over the age of 10 who were concordant or discordant for gender identity status in order to provide clarification of this issue. An extensive literature search yielded 24 studies of monozygotic (MZ) twin pairs (14 male, 10 female) who were discordant or concordant for transsexuality. In addition, Internet requests for participants and clinical contacts of the author located 55 new pairs of twins: 18 monozygotic male pairs, 16 monozygotic female pairs, 8 dizygotic (DZ) male pairs and 13 dizygotic female pairs. The dizygotic twins included 2 male/female pairs. From the literature, 8 of the 14 (57%) monozygotic male pairs were found to be concordant for transsexual gender identity and 4 of the 10 (40 %) female pairs were concordant. From our survey, 5 male monozygotic pairs out of 18 (28%) were identified as concordant for gender identity. Three of 16 sets of female MZ twins (19 %) were identified as concordant. Among 8 male and 13 female dizygotic twin sets, none were found to be concordant for transsexuality. Combining data from our independent findings with those from past publications, 13 of 32 male monozygotic twin pairs (38%) were found to be concordant for transsexual identity and 7 of 26 (27%) female MZ twins were found concordant. In comparison, concordance among either male or female DZ twins was only found in one of 27 cases (04%). These findings support the suggestion that there exists a significant genetic contribution to the development of gender identity disorder. -- Posted by Zoe Brain, Saturday, 28 September 2013 10:43:58 PM
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The author then goes on to say :
"This idea may align with radical feminist theory, but it is not evidence-based...." Here's what actual radical feminist theory says. I'll quote from Radical Feminist Professor Janice Raymond. I agree it's not evidence based, but supports exactly the author's equally fact-free views. Paper Prepared for the National Center for Health Care Technology on the Social and Ethical Aspects of Transsexual Surgery By Janice G. Raymond Assistant Professor of Medical Ethics and Women's Studies Hampshire College/University of Massachusetts Amherst, Massachusetts June, 1980 "For this small number of individuals, transsexual surgery is not only a therapeutic necessity but a reasonable and humane treatment. Furthermore, the majority of postoperative reports of transsexuals testify that the surgery has been proven effective and efficacious and is therefore no longer experimental. They cite the fact that 90% of those persons who have undergone surgery report that their lives are happier and healthier. These reports, however, do not explore the deeper social issues, nor do they question a satisfaction that is achieved at the expense of never investigating the underlying social and ethical issues. They do not state that after surgery the transsexual fits into a role-defined world better than most native-born women who live out their feminine roles.... While there are many who feel that morality must be built into law, I believe that the elimination of transsexualism is not best achieved by legislation prohibiting transsexual treatment and surgery but rather by legislation that limits it and by other legislation that lessens the support given to sex-role stereotyping, which generated the problem to begin with." They want transsexuals eliminated. It's an article of faith to them too that there can be no biological basis, regardless of the evidence. To continue: "The issues that this paper has highlighted should by no means be confined to the transsexual context. Rather they should be confronted in the "normal" society that spawned the problem of transsexualism to begin with." Rather than being on opposing sides, both the Radical Lesbian Feminists and Family Voice Australia are of like mind here. Posted by Zoe Brain, Saturday, 28 September 2013 11:04:35 PM
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In addition to genetics, hormonal environment in the womb plays a role.
-> Prenatal exposure to diethylstilbestrol(DES) in males and gender-related disorders:results from a 5-year study Scott Kerlin. Proc. International Behavioral Development Symposium July 2005 46,XY foetuses exposed to DES in the womb have a 500 times greater rate of transsexuality. This is a congenital anatomical issue. -> A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70. -- Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals... -- --> Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041 "The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder." Paul McHugh (who the author quotes) wrote in "Psychiatric Misadventures," The American Scholar, (Autumn, 1992), pp. 497-510. "We have to learn how to manage this condition as a mental disorder when we fail to prevent it. If it depends on child rearing, then let's learn about its inner dynamics so that parents can be taught to guide their children properly. If it is an aspect of confusion tied to homosexuality, we need to understand its nature and exactly how to manage it as a manifestation of serious mental disorder among homosexual individuals." Both Gay and Straight Transpeople exist. So much for the "form of homosexuality". The whole idea of a "psychiatric" cause has been repeatedly debunked in numerous experiments over 60 years. From the Medical Standards of Care v7 2011: "Treatment aimed at trying to change a person’s gender identity and expression to become more congruent with sex assigned at birth has been attempted in the past without success (Gelder & Marks, 1969; Greenson, 1964), particularly in the long term (Cohen-Kettenis & Kuiper, 1984; Pauly, 1965). Such treatment is no longer considered ethical. Posted by Zoe Brain, Saturday, 28 September 2013 11:46:18 PM
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Candide - There is no real social "issue" because the condition is rare. There is a real (but rare) condition. The issue is invented because it fits neatly into the Left's belief in gender warfare and wedge issues. There are thousands of more common conditions which are ignored because they have no political "wedge" value and therefore warrant no airtime.
No doubt it will become more popular over time Posted by Atman, Sunday, 29 September 2013 11:50:52 AM
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>>Transgender treatment, like anorexia treatment, may take many years. It is best begun early. Schools should not, by policies which reinforce body misperceptions, delay the process.<<
Now there I agree with the author. However, what she proposes as "treatment" she doesn't say. The kind of treatment she apparently has in mind results in children dying. It is unethical. It has been shown repeatedly not to work - though there's a plethora of religious propaganda pieces baldly asserting that it does. They just haven't bothered testing this assertion, not once in the last 40 years. It's an article of faith in the most literal sense. In contrast, there are multiple studies - actual measurements of large numbers of cases - showing that the treatment she espouses is harmful, and that that she wishes to be discontinued on religious grounds *does* work. Moreover, the earlier this treatment commences, the better the outcome. Better late than never, but better early than late. See The treatment of adolescent transsexuals: changing insights. Cohen-Ketternis et al, J Sex Med. 2008 Aug;5(8):1892-7. "From these studies it appeared that the youth who were selected for early hormone treatment (starting between 16 and 18 years) no longer suffered from gender dysphoria, and that 1–5 years after surgery, they were socially and psychologically functioning not very different from their peers. Their scores on various psychological instruments, such as a shortened Dutch form of the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory and the Symptom Check List-90, were considerably more favorable than scores of a group of subjects who had been treated in adulthood in the Amsterdam clinic, and scores were in the normal range as compared to normative samples." Posted by Zoe Brain, Sunday, 29 September 2013 11:12:56 PM
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Dear Zoe,
Please do not blame 'religion' for the sins of organisations that misrepresent religion. The origin of this controversy is that religion recommends celibacy. That's the best, so that one can direct all their energy and attention towards God - but it is also well-accepted that most people are not up to it. Ideally, sexuality should be "no-big-deal", but for those who are not up to celibacy, the vast majority of us who do pay attention to their sexuality, there should be ample opportunity to experiment and play with it until one day, by the grace of God, we had enough, found it disappointing and reached our own conclusion that there are things bigger and better than sex. Churches and schools that teach and enforce 'normal' sexual activities do so in collusion with society and its established institutions, for the secular goal of reproduction, not for religious reasons, thus betraying the faithful. Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 30 September 2013 12:22:26 AM
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>> Please do not blame 'religion' for the sins of organisations that misrepresent religion.
Fair point. But when they quote their own propaganda pieces in support of the contention that there's no genetic cause involved, and those propaganda pieces in turn reference articles that say "Thus in 7/17 cases there was concordance. Since this is neither 0/17 or 17/17, (statistically unlikely to be either) the conclusion is that genetic effects are probably involved" (Whitehead) Then that's dishonest. 0 out of 17 would be the expectation if genetics weren't involved, rather than "statistically unlikely". Rate is about 1 in 3000. When they pretend that opinion pieces published in religious and political journals - even newspapers - are "scientific evidence", that is a con-game to put it undiplomatically. When they conflate gender identity - who you are - with sexual orientation - who you're attracted to - that can be written off as a natural mistake, except that it's only done when that supports their viewpoint, and abandoned when it doesn't. That's how demagoguery works, but not reality. When they focus on the 2% failure rate of treatment, vs the 98% success rate, and conceal the 100% failure rate of their own snake-oil, that too is lying. When they omit salient facts, such as McHugh being the Vatican's advisor on sexual matters (and who was largely responsible for the cover-up of pedophilia in both the Church and Johns Hopkins), when all of the "doctors" they quote are members of the discredited political faux-scientific group NARTH... that's lying by omission. All this would be par for the course, just another way of getting suckers to part with their money and gain political power - but here (quite literally) children's lives are at stake. Posted by Zoe Brain, Monday, 30 September 2013 12:00:57 PM
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Imagine the future confusion. Transgender boy who dresses as a girl, becomes attracted to a transgender girl who dresses as a boy, neither realising what the other really is until the relationship has developed somewhat. Or transgender boy who dresses as a girl and decides he is a lesbian, starts a relationship with a girl lesbian, and finds that he is attracted to the opposite sex (who he considers to be the same sex)not as a lesbian but as what he actually is, a male. Wouldnt it be better as the author suggests to treat the original condition rather than try and work out the confusion on confusions that may later result?
Posted by bobS, Monday, 30 September 2013 7:26:52 PM
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Dear Bob,
Your examples demonstrate how we overemphasise sexuality where it should not have been a big deal in the first place. Zoe even wrote: "When they conflate gender identity - who you are...". I generally agree with what Zoe has to say, but it saddens me to notice this heavy identification with gender, taking it so seriously, to the extent of equating it with who we are. Two people are attracted to each other - well that's wonderful, it means that they found a spark of the divine in each other, which they should then celebrate, so who cares what their gender is? Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 30 September 2013 7:46:11 PM
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The tragic situation regarding Nathan Verheist in Belgium should make all of us pause and consider the issue carefully...
Nathan, who was born a girl and named Nancy, was rejected by the mother as she wanted a boy. When Nancy had hormones and surgery to become a 'man' it is claimed that the surgery was 'botched' - but the reality is that one cannot physically make a functioning man out of a woman. Nathan eventually requested - and was granted - legal euthanasia in Belgium. The reason given was "unbearable psychological suffering" as Nathan never really felt like a man and felt like a 'monster'. The story is online at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/10346616/Belgian-killed-by-euthanasia-after-a-botched-sex-change-operation.html This is not a condition to be dealt with by surgery - as Ros Phillips rightly points out by highlighting the story of Alan Finch. Posted by Jenny Stokes, Thursday, 3 October 2013 4:55:22 PM
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