Like so many other children of Veterans, I am also a statistic. If this study had been carried out years ago, when it should have, maybe I would have realised what was happening to me, not to mention my father.

Hi I am the wife of a Vietnam Vet I have 3 children. The first daughter is from my first marriage when I was 18 and the next 2 girls from my second marriage in 1970.
The girls from my second marriage have significant health problems both physical and mental but not so with the first daughter.
Many of my friends notice the same things with their children even when the husband declares "that there is nothing wrong with him"
Many of the children as estranged from their father and so are only learning now that they are not alone with their problems

All veterans and their dependants must make Minister Kelly aware that they will not let her pigeon-hole the recommendations of the Consultative Forum and the Scientific Advisory Committee.

Please write, ring, fax, email your local Federal member, your Senators, and Minister Kelly, Senator Hill, and let them know that the feasability study recomendations must be acted upon.

The above findings will be given to the Minister by the end of this month (October).

My sisters and I are estranged from our father, and as such he really has no idea what our health issues are. As we are now mothers ourselves, and have found disturbing health issues with our own children (his grandchildren), we are finding it very difficult to find any answers for our many questions. The original health study shows disturbing statistics but what on earth would the "real" statistics show if this study is to get the nod of approval and be sent out to the sons and daughters themselves instead of the fathers attemping to complete a survey they have no idea of the answers to?

The Vietnam war.. This is not the only conflict Australian Service personell have been involved nor is it the only cause of problems for service personell and there famalies. No one, least of all me is dismissing the problems caused by this conflict. But I am at a loss that all studies into the disfunctional family group and children seems to be directed at the one conflict "Vietnam". I am an ex serviceman 15 years and have my fair share of problems, but as I did not see "active service in a war like operation" my children are left to tuff it out on there own. I am a special rate TPI and the pension provides no support for my kids or even my wife. God knows she has had to pick up the pieces of a distroyed family group, and try to restore support for the kids.
This is a study which needs to be done and the results are for a good cause but with all things, all must be included. I support the Vets and there cause to my last breath, but some times I get the impression that all is not right in Camalott.
Keep up the hard work and I hope you all get the support that you need but dont forget the next generation of veterians and there families.

My partner has two girls from a previous marriage and they have no serious health problems. My partner and I produced our own daughter in 1977 (7 years from my return from Vietnam)and following two miscarriages. At the age of 8, our daughter was diagnosed with Type 1 Insulin Dependant Diabetes (an auto-immune illness).
This outcome has to be more than just coinsidence or bad luck.
Blackdog 8RAR

The link to this forum needs to be circulated to as many people as possible so as to give all a chance to read and or contribute.

If the problems could be tied to some chemical or environmental issue, I could understand the Vets having health problems. But I don't understand why their children do as well.

Most of the problems are of a mental health nature 70% it appears.

I wonder if such a study was ever done of Vets from Korea, and WWII ?

I'd like to know the results.

I observe that Vietnam, was probably the closest to an 'immoral' war that we have been involved in, (though the more I read of WWI the more I look sideways at how it began).. and this might be a contributing factor(This is NOT a criticism of our soldiers) Added to this, the chilly reception on return, for those who had experienced mind blowing doses of reality which most never see. The lack of people to understand and share with would be a tough thing to deal with.

I was in Vietnam during the war, but only for a short time. My next life was as a Missionary, where I spent 8.5 yrs in Malaysia. When we finally returned in 86, one of our knowledgable deacons asked "So, how was it there in Indonesia"..... It was like.. duh.... hello..

Things happen in war, and on the mission field, which cannot be comprehended by 'normal mortals' (as we tend to view the non participants in such things) and they just give you the blank face glazed eye look if you start to explain about experiences.

Another factor I'm curious about, is if there is any correlation between the shift in values from the previous generation, which was more God conscious than the Vietnam era generation, and the "mental health/inability to deal with" problems faced by so many Vets.

When the reference to the Almighty is removed by increased secularism, and coupled with a strong feminist movement questioning male identity, it could all add up to the same problems faced by the Yir Yoront of Cape York, who died out as a result of destruction of male identity.

Ladies and gentlemen, please do not get your hopes up that you will receive a favourable response from the Minister for Vet Affairs. Clearly the government operates on the tactics of delay. Witness their reaction to the Voyager disaster, their refusal to acknowledge the causal link of agent orange to cancer in Korean and Vietnam vets and more recently the lack of action to improve compensation for widows after the 1996 Black Hawk disaster. Not to mention the heralding of the Clarke Report by the Howard government, with the result of court action against reporters who dared to leak that Howard was not going to implement the recommendations. I am a son of a Vietnam Vet, AATTV 1965/66, who lost his father to cancer in 1993. Keep reminding the government of their promise to look after veterans and vote for someone else in the SENATE in the hope that the bastards can be kept to their word.

I am a Vietnam Veteran. I have 3 children. My eldest child was conceived before my tour of Vietnam. The other two after my tour. The two conceived after my tour both have health problems. The one conceived before my tour does not.

I have heard of many similar situations. Some are described elsewhere in this forum. There are too many incidences like this for these situations to simply be coincidence. The COVVHS must go ahead in a scientific manner to establish once and for all if there is a causal link between service in Vietnam and the health of children of Vietnam Veterans.

Such a study could also provide a basis for the health review of children of Veterans from other “war like” operations.

For those partners of veterans who believe that COVVHS must continue with this study please go to the following link and consider becoming a member of the PVA. (Partners of Veterans Association) Your support will help to push the cause.

http://www.pva.org.au/index.asp

I have three children, all conceived after my return from Vietnam and all have major but differing medical conditions, my son is on a disability pension. Both my wife and I come from large families and none of the children of our siblings have any medical problems. This is a similar story to many of the guys I served with.

I'd like to see these studies cross referenced against a control sample. How can Grandchildren inherit physical disorders from the Grandparents? Was the DNA messed up in Vietnam vets? Is that possible?

If you really want to find problems you will. In my family there has been asthma, alcoholism, criminal court appearances, divorce, learning problems, mental issues. If I wanted to be a victim I could say it must have something to with my Grandfather having served in WWI, mustard gas and whatever else was being tossed around. I know the reality is that his service has had bugger all to do with those events, and despite them life is still actually pretty good.

So many victims these days (anyone looking for a topic for a OLO peice?)

I am the daughter of a veitnam vet and I suffer terribally from physical and mental health problems including reprodutive problems an auto immuine disease, joint pain, debilitating daily headaches, sleep deprovation and vision problems to list just a few. This makes my quality of life very poor. It also affects my child and partners lives as they have to live with someone who is sick all the time.

I have been to many doctors and specialists including travelling for 700kms every month to see them, which for someone who is always sick is a difficult task. The doctors after trying lots of treatments including steriods and a number of other drugs all with terrible side effcts and eight lots of surgery to remove polops, don't know what to do for me all they offer is pain killers which no longer work as it has been years of suffering.

All we are asking for is a study so maybe doctors for people like me will know how to manage out illnesses better. After what out fathers gave for this country I don't think it is asking to much. Please help us by honoring them by at lest trying to ease their heart ache of now seeing their children suffer what more horror do they need to insure.

Dysfunction as a result of Vietnam has plauged our family since before my birth, I suspect it will continue after my passing.

Developing a "Don't Care" attitude has cost me many failed relationships including a marriage and a child.

As to the Government they still appear, at least to "us" to be in denial. Denial of the effects of their decision/s regarding both the going to and ther coming back from Vietnam a legacy well endowed by current political heirachy.

There are several four letter words that come to mind at this point, so I'll just wander back off into obscurity.

Harryc stated

"I'd like to see these studies cross referenced against a control sample. How can Grandchildren inherit physical disorders from the Grandparents? Was the DNA messed up in Vietnam vets? Is that possible?

If you really want to find problems you will. In my family there has been asthma, alcoholism, criminal court appearances, divorce, learning problems, mental issues. If I wanted to be a victim I could say it must have something to with my Grandfather having served in WWI, mustard gas and whatever else was being tossed around. I know the reality is that his service has had bugger all to do with those events, and despite them life is still actually pretty good."

The reference to mustard gas which was also known as H, yprite, sulfur mustard and Kampstoff Lost, and which has a chemical formula of Cl-CH2-CH2-S-CH2-CH2-Cl, would seem to be a bit of a throw-away line to trivialise the effects chemical exposure has had on vietnam vets. Mustard gas was terrible weapon that not only caused irritation and blistering of the skin but caused blindness. Mustard gas is a known mutagen and is thought to be a human carcinogen too. So who is to say that some of the problems experienced by Harryc's family was not caused in someway by his grandfathers exposure to some chemical.

Helo177,

Three possibilities occur to me,

I have no doubts its possible that you have inherited a psychological condition possibly derived from post traumatic stress syndrome suffered by your grandfather and further contributed to by the actions and reactions of his extended family and projected into your psyche.

You could be Twelve

or perhaps a Labour voter.

No matter how you take it your anger will be derived from a family upbringing that saw your grandfather return to a loving embracing country. I say lucky you.

Any way you cut it, good luck to you.

I feel for the vets and their families. A few people will criticise me but I want to juxtapose the plight of our veterans with that of the very generous treatment our government gives to new arrivals into our country. And no, I do not consider it a straw man argument.

Our vets are forced to jump through the various government hoops to get treatment. Vets are usually made to go all the way to the Veterans' Review Board to get war-caused disabilities accepted and treated and perhaps a pension. The families of veterans virtually have no access to the VRB. On the other hand we spend about AUD$7.2 billion on multiculturalism each year ('The Cost of Multiculturalism', Rimmer, SJ).

A totally and permanently incapacitated veteran (TPI) can get dental treatment free of charge. If that veteran needs a dental crown he can get it to the value of *$652. However, that $652 is the upper limit and the veteran is only entitled to it in one calendar year. So if he needs two dental crowns he has to wait a year for the second one. On the other hand, a refugee or asylum shopper can be in the dentist's chair 5 minutes after arriving at Port Augusta and their is NO upper limit placed on any dental treatment.

Why do we place the health needs of strangers above the health needs of our veterans and their families? Are we really saying that teaching English to a migrant is more important than looking after our veterans and their families?

* amount adjusted in line with dental costs.

I am a Daughter of a Vet. I have two children of my own.
Cut a long story short, I attended my Pops funeral a long time ago. People that I didn't even know said to me "So, you are the agent orange baby". This was my introduction to the Vietnam War. I suffer from numerous ailments, most that have no reason to be with me. I was not supposed to be able to have kids. I did. But not without extreme problems and unfortunately can't have more. As an adult, I can now see how PDST ruled my Father, Mother, Brother and myself.
I see how it has and still affects my life, and now my childrens life. I am so proud of my Father. He had a job to do, and he represented my country. I passionately beleive that research needs to be carried out on the children, and hence the Grandchildren of Vets. Not necessarily for compensation, but for an understanding of why, I guess "we are different".
Good luck to you all.

I am the daughter of a Vietnam veteran and have a rare form of cutaneous lymphoma known to affect those veterans exposed to agent orange in Vietnam. I was conceived after my father returned from his time in Vietnam. Its obvious that this chemical is the cause of my lymphoma but no one wants to admit it. Its about time the health study regarding children of vietnam veterans got off the ground and the truth came out!

You guys need to nail this one down with the tightest research with controls etc. Accept nothing less. And if it has not already been done, go for a detailed audit of every pill and additive ever fed to you. More power to your arm.

As part of a naval dive team operating in Sth east Asia in the 60's, being involved in high stress situations was common. These situations, required extreme concentration, dependence on your training and those around you.

In combat, stress is to the fore front of ones being, yet can't be allowed to effect you. When the stress around you is released, the stress inside come bubbling out and the struggle for control begins and continues throughout life.

My children have little contact with me, nor does my family or ex friends. I cope by being a recluse, not getting involved, fighting for sleep and closure on my nightmares, battling constant desires to lockup, secure, be aware and prepared. I used to self medicate, which would give windows of opportunity to communicate with others. But it doesn't solve anything.

The Viet, veterans, are from an era where they were not going to be told to shut up an get on with it as in the past, but those in power have no understanding as to what effect there has been, upon those they sent to fight their wars.

For those that serve on active service that have strong ideologies, the effects can be more dramatic as their ideologies collapse under the weight of the massive death and destruction that surrounds them,so they begin to collapse within. There are lots of forms of PTSD, and they have varying effects.

In civilian life most PTSD is caused by single short term incidences. Whilst on active service, the incidences can continue for hours, days, weeks, months and even years with little respite. This is what veterans have had to contend with, not single moments of high stress and danger, but continuing episodes with no escape or rescue. No wonder they all have such long term debilitating life styles. How do you compensate someone for losing their minds to internal calamity.

Our internal fight goes on day after to day, coming home didn't fix it and the powers that be, only exasperate it by their ignorance

I am the wife of a Vietnam Veteran and mother of three adult children. My eldest daughter suffers extremely high blood pressure and various unexplained rashes. She is presently being treated for eye problems (severe failing sight in both eyes) and deafness in one ear. She also had too small a pelvis to give birth naturally and had to have caesarian births. The cause of these two recent problems are being investigated but to date no answers. My second child has suffered severe depression and been on medication for this and also receives counselling. He has Type 1 Diabetes and stomach ulcers. My youngest daughter has high blood pressure, a heart murmur and suspected Lupus as she has a very low immune system. She too has suffered depression, a breakdown and has been on medication for this.

My husband is one of five children. None of his brothers or their children have any medical problems. None of the problems our children suffer are hereditary. This all tells me we have a very serious problem with children of Vietnam Veterans.

Joey

It is good to see such interest in this important issue.
Many have asked...why Vietnam veterans only? The sons and daughters of Vietnam veterans are at an appropriate age for a health study.
The members of COVVHS ( Children of Vietnam Veterans Health Study,Inc.)hope that the outcomes of any study into the health of Vietnam veterans children will give a better understanding to the Australian government, of the impact that war (and Peacekeeping) service has, not only on the servicemen,but also on their families. We hope measures will then be put in place so that these continuing health problems in many of our children, can be rectified for future generations of servicepersons children.
Do we have a "victim" mentality? I do not believe that most do. There are some whose lives are hell and will rightly feel that they are victims of a terrible wrong!
As long ago as the Crimean war, it has been observed that war service damages men and through them their families. Far from being victims, we are informing the general community and Government of the significant effect we believe war service has on the sons and daughters of veterans; something that for generations until now, has been kept quiet!

Our father went to veitnam and had 3 daughters when he returned. Our parents broke up when we were young therefore our father does not know what health problems we have as since the seperation we don't have much to do with hime. My sisters and I have all gone on to have children and have discovered that all his grandchildren have health probelms as well. We find it very difficult to find any answers to our questions as we get told our father has the information. As alot of vetrans are divorced I think to find out an accurate statistic that the study should be sent to the children themselves so that the true informtion is documented as some of the fathers do not know the information and put down other things. I also feel that you need to survey only the vetrans biological children, as I know of some vetrans that have put down information about there new partners children (that do not have anything to do with vietname) and not their biological children.

My father was an alcohlic, my mother suffered with bi polar illness, one of my chldren as a severe heart abnormality, I have been treated for depression several times, one son has redundant malfromed small toes, the other has asthma the fourth child is incorrigable - I guess dad must have done a sly tour of duty with out letting any one know - how else can these things be explained?.

I am not unsympathetic - I just seem that way - but I suggest these eggs may never get unscrambled.

I am the son-of-step to a vietnam veteran, who is on a disability support pension as a direct result of my fathers war service.

My father raised me from 2years old, which demonstrates that it is nurture not nature that effects the children of vietnam vets.

They say our fathers are models for GOD and we are our fathers sons.

I can remember being a child and being exposed to my dad being called a baby killer and a coward. I can remember being bullied because I was proud of my dad and being labelled as crazy and a trouble maker, making sure the bully ate his words (and some teeth).

If society put down our fathers, who we saw as different from "the average", what does that say about GOD and what does that say about us?

Yes problems are normal and there are other similar symptoms shown by other groups in society, but only one other social group demonstrates the same level of suicide (3x the national avareage), mental health issues (39.1) self esteem issues (21%), unemployment rate (15%) and overrepresentation in the criminal justice and mental health system and that group is indigenous Australians.

So because of my fathers war sevice I am part of a group who have as many barriers to accessing a reasonable quality of life as aborigines, without the social and advocacy services to make it a level playing field.

Shows how little our lives are worth within society because of our fathers war service.

I have started a website www.freewebs.com/posttoursonsanddaughters have a look and leave a comment.

To our fathers who say "Hournor the dead, fight like hell for the living" we say "we can, we will, just cover our backs"

For Glynis8;

Our Daughters Edited version

My kidneys were severely scarred plus my uretha was severely scarred..The doctor had to scrape as much of the scarring from my kidneys

Also my uretha is 1/4 the size of a normal persons which gave the doctor a nightmare of an operation,,

I was in hospital for approximately 3-4weeks with ongoing treatments the urologist had also told me at 16, he had a gyno look at me in one of the ops and I had endometriosis.

Nothing was done about this until I was about 25 & had an abnormal pap smear.

I went to see a gyno

I had a pretty bad case of endo which may require further treatment with tablets or implants about a year after the 1st op.

I had to go on a course of zolodex which is an implant in between the navel and pubic region.

It was supposed to shrink my ovaries to stop my bleeding, because if I'm not on the pill I bleed constantly and they don't now why.

So I was put me into menopause. it's a 6 month course & it should have stop any growth in my reproductive region. which it didn't.

I bled throughout the 6 months which amazed the doctor, he said he'd never heard of that happening it put me into menopause & I went onto hormone replacement therapy at 26 years old.

That was terrible to come to terms with because of my age

The Dr did a partial hymenectomy which was supposed to make the thrush go away ,thrush I still get

I had to go into hospital again for another laproscopy because the endo never left me

I also have hypertension which was diagnosed last year. I was 29,and now I am on coversyl tablets for the rest of my life.

I have relationship problems. I can't talk to anyone about myself because no one understands.

Also I possess all the symptoms of a diabetic..But No diabetes problems registers..I always have a teaspoon of sugar to alleviate my feelings...

Hi to all I,m trying to post a comment from Aussie 1 but do not seem to be succeeding. Willtry anoter way The real disgrace of the Vietnam and in fact all eras of conflict is that it appears governments and taxpayers seem to "conveniently forget" that the the "direct qnd indirect victims" are deserving of treatment and support by the country whose activities caused these consequences Take care Aussie1 terry

Hello from Terry. I returned from Vietnam on 14th September 1966. On that day and since my belief has firmly become that Australia's Greatest Enemies are in fact Australians who put personal and self interest before duty and obligations to all those who have suffered and continue to suffer due to their's or their forbear's honourable and dedicated service to Australia. To me those who hypocritically praise us in public and stab us behind our backs are cowardly and pathetic traitors. How long since any of them have been charged with treason? Perhaps the greatest disgrace is that many Politicians from all sides and more so Public Servants, who do not have the protection of parliamentary privilege have , in the past, been seemingly protected and totally immune from prosecution for such things as Deceptive and Misleading Conduct, Wilful negligence, deliberate lying in Public, improperly misinterpreting, reducing and erasing Veteran benefits and being allowed to get away with it. Many Heads of Veteran Organisations have got “too close” to Government or the Public Service and pushed their own “bandwagon” rather than look out for the welfare and support of the Actual Veteran, his/her widow/widower and the Orphans or dependent/suffering children. More of that in a later post .
In the meantime here are a couple of questions to think about and perhaps invite response.
Ques 1. Where do a great deal of the imported cashew nuts such as commonly found on Supermarket’s shelves at for example at Woolworths come from?

Ques 2. If it is true, as reported in detail by the Vietnamese Red Cross, that areas such as Bien Hoa province north of Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) still register dioxin (Acknowledged Carcinogenic by product of Agent Orange) levels in excess of 200 times the “permissable level” then why is Australia allowing the import of these products or any other products from areas (most of Vietnam's wooded areas and surrounds) from which agricultural products come or fish products from the corrupted waterways of particularly the Mekong delta? Take care Keep safe

To all Vietnam Veterans. Thank you for your service to our wonderful country. I wish you and your families well in your pursuit of a fair go.

Cheers
Kay

Thank you Kay for your kind thoughts.

Bill D

I’m a Vietnam TPI for a plethora of war related health issues. I felt like a fake because I had only been in Vietnamese Waters twice for a relatively short period. The first time was June1965, just turned 17 and being welcomed to the real world with a big hello. Hence the start of PTSD which was not diagnosed until 2002 although all the signs had been there with behavioural problems, lack of job satisfaction etc whilst in the RAN and after I resigned in 1973.
My two step – daughters have had no major health problems but did have some behavioural problems which counsellors had contributed directly to me and my overly heavy discipline.
My natural daughter, who was born in 1978, has problems with unexplained skin rashes, minor skeletal problems, her hormones, glands, hearing, eyesight and reproductive system, having miscarried on numerous occasions usually about the 9 – 14 week mark. She has been successful with 2 pregnancies, both of which were girls, aged 6 and 2. My eldest natural granddaughter (I have 5 granddaughters [3 step] and 5 step-grandsons) has skin rashes, gastrointestinal and glandular problems, behavioural and learning disabilities. The 2 year old is constantly sick with gastrointestinal and lung and chest infections. The other 8 are extremely healthy and hearty without other than minor childhood illnesses.
How did this happen? I wasn’t out in the jungle walking through herbicides.
I thought it must be something else until research released about 2 years ago, and confirmed recently by Queensland University’s National Research Centre for Environmental Toxicology, that the method HMAShips used for obtaining fresh water failed to remove contaminates, (Agent Orange) that had been washed into Vung Tau harbour from many estuaries, and in some cases, the toxicology actually increased due to the evaporative distillation process. This “fresh” water was used for drinking, cooking and bathing.
I can assure you that these findings answered quite a few questions for my family and me. I just wonder how many more of these things would come out in an in depth case study.

When i found this site and sat down to read all the entry's i found tears running down my face, i was amazed at just how many other's where out there who have had to deal with being a child of a V.V, it's sad to think our father's where egnored by the government and by most people in australia when these men first came home, they needed support and got none, we the children of these men need answer's i'm sure like myself there is alot of rate payer's/voter's out there that feel the government has let the whole V.V Generation down in a way that is UN-Australian....
Any Children wanting to make contact with other VVKids you should also make contact with this site...www.pva.org.au/images/tab1.gif
P.S Bring on the research into health now not later,Mr Howard

The children of Vietnam Vetrans went through all of the trauma of these Soldiers departure, active war and return.

They continue to manage this trauma that many of the Vietnam Vetrans still suffer today. The intensity has broken many an Australian family.

Loyalty and bravery had been inscribed in the heart of these families. Only to find that they were the mere "Fodder" to carry out the dirty work of those who had much more to lose.

The Vietnam Vetrans did not get a parade of welcome back, instead had to quietly return, ashamed by the political war that it had become.

And so did their families.

I am reading the posts from all of you and yes I understand the trauma, BUT by now the majority of the children of V V's must be in the youngest age 30. So should we now look at these people as adults and should the emphisis now shift to the present and future youth of our defence personell. I understand the dificulties you face both physical and mental. But you are looking at this with the blinkers on. See the big picture and start to listen to the young ones coming up the ranks so to speak. There parents, father, or mother who has finished there service, is still serving or is about to end there service, will undoutably have problems and so will there children. Stop wallowing in your own self missery and open up to the new ones. It has taken me many years to view other service personell as having problems but they do and they like us and you are the flag barers, so let them in and give support, not chritisum and contempt. "Because there farther did not serve in Vietnam" but they Did Serve and that is enough.......

How stupid are some people?
At 30 ears of age you do not grow out of/get over spina bifida, cleft palate, etc, neither do the following generations!
Wake up!

Leave the ghosts . . . .

You did what you were told
It wasn’t your war to fight
Followed some else’s orders
And cried alone at night

Your innocence gone
In the blink of an eye
You lived with death every day
The thought alone makes me cry

You came home to a world changed
To a country that rejected you
To the love of many
But the understanding of few

To dreams and nightmares
Memories better left untold
To hard work and toil
To rejection from the fold

You carried on and tried to cope
You pushed the past aside
But asleep at night
There was nowhere you could hide

Stand up tall and strong
Be proud of what you gave
Admit who you are, where you’ve been
Leave the ghosts to their grave.

I always thought everything would be ok when I knew 'why'. It took me a long time to realise and accept that things will never be ok. No child of a Vietnam Veteran would ever say that we are the only ones that are experiencing or ever will experience problems but we are the ones that need help now. Helping us now will help those in the future.

I do not have anything to do with my father but that is my choice. I do not wallow in self pity. I still have a cry every so often but for those that take the little things for granted, such as being able to wear a watch or being able to sleep without seeing nightmares that are not your own, such as not watching your own skin flake off, they should get a little more information before commenting.

See poiner8rar you folks just read into things how you want to. I at no point said grow up or out of it what i said is be open to the next lot following. But not seeing the trees for the forest seems to be a bit of an issue. You lot arnt the only ones with problems and you will not be the last.

After reading Siren's comments, I can feel the rage inside. Obviously this person has not read the comments posted, and has not understood the enormity of this situation. Yes, we do need to look at the children of V.V. By doing so, will it not enable us to be better prepared for future generations. You say that we are wearing blinkers, are you not by not seeing the plight that the children go through each and every day. One that does not end just because we reach a certain age. Maybe you should think of others before being so judgemental.

Sadly, very sadly the above are the sorts of comments that the Minister will look for so that she may be able to pigeon hole yet another study.
The major ESO's have a lot to answer for assisting in this regard, individuals fight to get a study done, in this case the COVVHS group, then the ESO's appoint a FIGJAM representative who does't even read the scientific reports and then kicks up a stink at the next consultative forum, you know "I have been doing this for xxxxx years, I know what I'm talking about", they don't! and even more dangerous it that they don't know that they don't know.
http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/carryon/web/COVVHSindex.htm

I pity those whose lives are dedicated to selfish purpose only. Yes there are alot of areas in society today that need research and improvement. That is not in question. Weather children of Vets is a worthy cause to be researched is. Personally I believe War, weather 50 years ago or present has severe effect on all that served.And therefore on those whose lives are touched by those who served. Anything we can do to help those who are effected live peacfully is a worthy cause in my books. And let me tell you why.

My biological father was not a Vet, so physically I am not effected like alot of you out there are. But my step father is.

If you can imagin a 6 year old little girl. Innocent, bubbly, full of opinion and a thirst for life thrown into a world centered on a war that happened many years ago. Woken in the middle of the night by screaming and crying pulled from her bed and told that her room was not clean enough she must do it again. Marched through her childhood walking on egg shells for fear of yet another wild outburst. Her home run like a military camp. The bruises healed and the years passed but I will never forget the little girl I used to be. Not now in my mid 20's or ever.

My half brother who is 12 is his biological son. He has ADHD. A string of behavioral problems and no chance of surviving in this society as a child of a V.V.if there isnt recognition of his very real problems.

This isnt about weather this cause is more important or more worthy. Its about finding hope for those past, present and future that must endure the effects of such a horrific thing like war!

Not sure how Siren does that math that the youngest must be 30 - my son just turned 25 and I'm a VV!

I am the daughter of a WW11 vet. My father was a physically and emotionally damaged man.

I have nursed WW1, WW11, and Viet Vets. There is no doubt in my mind that the VVs are a far more damaged group - physically, emotionally, and mentally.

Kay

I agree with Pronto. One of my VV mates, on his 4th Marriage has 10 natural childen ranging from 35 to a daughter aged 8

For goodness sake!
All that COVVHS (Children of Vietnam Veterans Health Study Inc) has asked for is a "qualitive and quantitive whole of life study of the health of the children of Vietnam veterans against the general population"
COVVHS is not about financial compensation: we want our childrens health dealt with, ie, why?
Kind regards,
David Matheson (ex Pioneers, 8RAR)

I totally agree with pioneer8rar that we only want our children's health dealt with but it looks as if this will be another one of those issues kidnapped and devalued by the ratbag "what about me" element who have no understanding of the problems and supply fodder for the Minister's always hungry cannons.

The "kidnappers" referred to are the major reason I tend not to particpate in this kind of arena, getting it through their heads:
Firstly it's about why things are the way they are and secondly can something be done, and thirdly how do we achieve this.

In my mind "we" have been stranded in the preface of the first one and its the lazy sons of female dogs on both sides that keep us there.

An Opinion surely.

Anyway you look at it it is hard not to resent the lack of interest shown in the welbeing of a significant portion of the population.

Maybe we would all be better off running drugs into Bali if thats the only way to get their attention.

It seems the general population has more compassion for a few scum drug peddlers facing the death penalty than a lot of others facing an uncertain death.

The peddlers will know why they are dead.

Do not despair TwoeY if we all continue despite the few detracters we will ultimately be successful. If we don't satnd up now we will never do so.

Dobie.

Thans Dobie, I appreciate your comment.
I'd like to take an opportunity to thank pioneer8rar, Dave your communications to me have been a light to me where there was none. Your diligence despite the ignorance surrounding these issues has made me feel less alone.

Twoey's Tantrum of the Day.

The headline in The Age "Mother's desperate plea"

The body of the story defines for me the attention and resources that the media and Government will utilize to "save" Tuong Van Nguyen, a fellow that is reported to have made a decision import heroin to Singapore (to pay his brothers legal bills) that will most likey harm him.

Barristers Lex Lasry, QC, and Julian McMahon described the decision as a "personal rebuff for our leaders"

Mr Downer said last night: "If anybody has any new and constructive ideas, we're happy to look at them. But there is not anything apparent to us. We have done everything we can."

Look what can happen if you, however admirmirally decide to pay your brothers legal bills.

Look I may well empathise with the peddler and I find myself thinking what kind of idiot looks after his brother by getting hanged, and it would be a shame to lose a young life blah blah blah.

We are still waiting to see even a glimmer of the same kind of attention, we are many not one, and WE HAD NO CHOICE. Thanks Downer, you dick. Oh hey Kevin Rudd theres a reason you are in opposition, you have no spine.

There are quite a few 4 letter words I would like to use.
I cycle between rage and desparation and despair when I see the obvious bulls**t some people and Government subscribe to.

What the heck do you think would happen if we all piled into an illegal fishing vessel with $7 billion in cocaine and had our mothers call the newspaper.

And the w**ker barrister, the race card aint gonna make a damn bit of differnce.

I have read the above comments and find some totally unbelievable. I am a Vietnam Veteran and have 3 daughters. The eldest is now 35 and suffers from Gillian Barre Syndrome, a virus that causes the white cells to eat away at your nerve endings. Thirty percent of sufferers die. My daughter is lucky,as she is overcoming the disease with massive doses of steroids, which has caused her to double her weight in a few months.
My second daughter has malformations in her spine and suffers from chronic back ache. She has two sons. The eldest who is now 4, developed Juvenile diabetes at age two. Her youngest now almost 3 was born with Cleft lip and Cleft Palate, has had to have tubes inserted to drain his tear ducts, and has had a number of operations with more to come.
My youngest daughter, who is now 22, had endometriosis, has mild Spina Bifida, has lots of backache from this. She has just had her first child and thankfully, this child seems to be perfect.She is only 5 days old). For 9 months I have been very worried about the new grandchild, hoping and praying for good health, as I have been blaming myself for my daughters ill health and for my grandchildrens ill health. I was a National Serviceman and in Vietnam in 1966/1967 and have lots of health problems as well. I am TPI and demand that the COWHS goes ahead for the sake of our children and their children.
Merv17

Merv17

You are not to blame for events beyond your control, it has taken me many years to live down my guilt at my own children's ill health and the best thing we can all do is give COVVHS and the PVA as much support as we can muster.

For those that don't know check the deformities suffered by the people of South Vietnam.

Dobie.

As a Vietnam Vet of the regular service ilk my health issues are my problem as I volunteered to do my governments bidding. However my son did not and his medical issues, which fall into the unusual catagory should be addressed by the government. He is not looking for compensation just some answers and if possible some treatment. We as veterans deserve to know more about the possible consiquences of chemicals used to Protect us. I have no concerns if they caused my health problems as technically like bullets and bombs they were used with the best of intentions for our safety, but my son should not have to suffer because of my service.
Buck Ryan ex 135th Assault Helicopter Company.

I am the child of a Vietnam veteran who served for two tours in 68 and 69. Five years ago I was diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Anxiety Disorder and Clinical Depression. I have also in that time been consulting a GP who is as perplexed as I am that I have a 'rare' red blood cell disorder, so rare in fact that there is no name for it. Can this be attributed to Agent Orange? My father tells me he remembers it raining down on him, and he remembers it cracking the webbing between his fingers and toes. He has also been diagnosed with a 'rare' red blood cell disorder.
The point of this is that pointing fingers will not change the fact that we both have something wrong with us. Not including my younger brother who has been diagnosed with Manic Depression.
Perhaps it would be more productive to carefully consider engaging in war in the first place. Active service women and men in Irag and Afghanistan are required to take 'medicine' to counter the effects of the Allied Forces depleted uranium weapons. That begs the question - in thirty years time will we need a new committee and a new inquiry to determine the extent of damage occuring in those veterans' families?
There must be a better way!

I served in 1966, 1969 and 1971. I have a son, age 25 who has been diagnosed with depression. I know so many other Veteran mates, who also have children who are suffering with depression. This can no longer be seen as just coincidental. We must find the link to service in Vietnam and the suffering of our children. It must be put right. It is time for our Government to act on this matter.

Being the son of a vetrian and having the problems of my own as well as my kids problems. Tels me one thing stop reproducing and my kids have seen the effect of the past and see the future in a responsible way. If we know there is physical and mental problems in us as a result of whatever cause, would the responsible thing to do be not have any more kids. Or do we just want to keep the family name going that much that we jepodise the well being of kids and future grand kids. Treat who needs it and stop the casuality list from growing by not bringing more into the fire lane. The goverment will not admit liability thus not providing any more funds then it realy needs to. The argument and study is just and honest, but the goverment will just not give it the attention it deservs. So stop creating more casualties.

I have just been informed of this link about Agent Orange. I had a son in 1971, his father had been in Vietnam.As a toddler he had a very bad rash around the groin area and was under Hospital care. His father also had this rash. In 1973 i had a daughter to my Husband and she was born with Bilary Aterisa. No bile ducts in the liver,She had a couple of ops before she was 3mths old and at 11months she died.I had 5 other children when I married this man and none of them had any major health problems. My son who is 35 this year also was illiterate and has never been able to read. He now has back problems and has been under hosp treatment for a Bowel problem. I once contacted The veterans about help and was told that because my husband never claimed I couldn't get help. My husband remarried and has since died at 60 from a brain tumour.Keep your chins up everybody and good luck Gemma.

Hi, I am a daughter of a vietnam veteren I am 32 years old. I served within the ADF myself for 4 years from the age of 17-21years old. I was looking for a website that can give children of vietnam veterans support?

As I have all the usual web sites for counselling services if full support of the veterans and what we should be doing to help them, but what about us the families, children, that have to live with these atomic bombs, and having to live with serious systamatic physical, emotional abuse on a regular basis.

As once I joined the ADF my brother was left at home with my father/mother, and the abuse was directed at him, he has now been diagnosed with schziphrena and can not interect effectively with society. I stayed away from home for the past 17years and for most part it has been ok, and learning in the "real" world people do not live like this, except the ones coming from an abusive household's tending to follow in the path of abusive relationships, and unable to break the cycle, which is similar to myself.

Now due to a financial situation have had to move back home at 32years old, and live with a vietnam veteran that is in constant denile that he has the issue it is us ie: the family, and hands me books to read from the DVA designed for children to accept "this issue and live with it".

Can anyone help or know of anyone in similar circumstances or perhaps a web site that is specific to us the families and children?

VIETNAM VETERANS' COUNSELLING SERVICE
Wimpole Place 15 Astor Tce Spring Hill 4000 (07) 3831 6100
24hr Emergency Hotline 1800 011 046

These people have been awesome for me.

If Brisbane isn't your gig, then they should be able to steer you in a direction of use.

Hello,
You may care to look at the "Children of Vietnam Veterans Health Study" site:
http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/carryon/web/COVVHSindex.html
David

Thanks very much folks will check it out-the web site. I already contacted the Vietnam Vet, helpline but the person wasn't much help. But will maybe give it another go :))

Thanks again.

I find it intriguing that people comment that we need to move on, and that health issues can be attributed to many things and perhaps not chemical warfare - and that we have a victim mentality.

I am a daughter of a Vietnam Vet. Both myself and my brother have health issues that may or may not be attributable to my dad being in Vietnam and being in Agent Orange areas - we don't know. But given that since the end of the war 14.8 out of 100000 people in the general population between the ages of 10 and 39 years committed suicide, and that figure is 46.6 out of 100000 for viet vets children - yeah I'd say there was a link somewhere.

I'm not overly concerned with my health issues, I can deal with them. What scares me out of my mind is what is going to be the impact on my children? Will they be okay? Will they have cancer, or spina bifida or cleft palate? This is not the voice of a victim saying we need this research to happen, this is the voice of a future mother who will fight tooth and nail to see that her children are looked after. Especially if it is related to something that her own father experienced because he thought at the time he was doing the right thing.

Please don't push us aside and try to invalidate our situations by classing us as victims.

Kate

Well said kateaj

G'day Kate

I fully understand your fears about your future children and nobody can be sure just what may transpire, I just want to tell you that I now have grandchildren to my son and my daughter is currently pregnant and so far so good there are no obvious problems.

You are so right with your statements on the suicide among our children the last study showed children of Vietnam Vets are suiciding at a rate that is 300% higher than the Australian national average and the Asutralian average is among the highest in the world.

Be positive Kate and stay strong.

Dobie

I'm the daughter of a VV I'm the eldest of five child and the mother of four.I'm 36yrs old. My little brother is 6yrs old.
Unless your the Wife or child of one of these Soldiers, I find it hard to understand how you could 'understand the trauma'.
Do you know what it's like to be held up against a wall,by your throat, with you feet off the ground and told that if he squeezed just a little harder you'd be dead.I was only a little girl.I put up with that sort of abuse until I was 16yrs old, then I ran away from home.
I've dealt with my childhood and various medical conditions (one of which also saw me go through menapause at 26)
I am not 'wallowing in my own self misery' nor do I believe that that others from similar situation are either....
PEOPLE SHOULDN"T PASS JUDGEMENT ON THINGS THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.......

I understand from the most recent inquiries, that the relevant “feasibility study” has now been completed, and resting in the hands of the “Repatriation Commission” for review, consent, or whatever they are suppose to do; and that this part of the protocol could take some time? "Hello, we have been waiting since the onset of our son's problems, from childhood, to puberty, to adulthood, and very familiar with the 'hurry up and wait' mentality?" not to mention the "find out for yourself routine?"
Could someone please enlighten me? I take far too many pills and things, and must be confused, because I keep hearing or reading different accounts of the proposed study's progress. I am still confused with the process, and lack of information in the public domain. Bureaucrats are experts at serving up misinformation, and half-truths, and by further protracting matters such as this into OBSCURITY. Please excuse me if I sound cynical, but I am just an old war horse beaten, insubordinate, loose lipped with anger! Nothing but a battered and bruised baby boomer, with the gnawing pain of my son’s mental torture (he is 28) still in my stomach pit.

I spoke to an assistant for the Minister of Veterans’ Affairs, on Friday, who reiterated that the feasibility study had not been completed. Today I personally visited Jackie Kelly’s Parliamentary office, here in Penrith, who obligingly informed me that the matter (feasibility study) was as of this day, Monday the 20 February 2006, with Repat; awaiting further orders. A bitter crunchy, with a bad taste of dioxin infected semen, as of 1978.

Ted Colmer Vietnam 1968-69, 1ARU, 4RAR, D&E Platoon, Task Force.

Rockjaw

It is my understanding that the feasibility study has been completed and is with the MINISTER for Vet Affairs so he can give a go/no go to the actual study into the health of the children of Vietnam Vets, also known as COVVHS or Children of Vietnam Veterans Health Study.

Pronto

You will need a cut lunch & a thermos for this one!
Subject: Agent Orange - De-Classified Report.

Go to this site & u only need to read the first 3 odd pages to gain an opinion. It is about A.O. usage in SVN even though the page is Gulf War Vets Heading.

www.gulfwarvets.com/ao.html

Maureen,
Keep up the good work,
David

I am from Columbus, Ohio, USA
I am the father of two daughers. Both have psychiatric disorders and both on medication.
My younger was said to be suicidle.
Hope something is determined.
Of the other information I have gathered, the info from Australia is the best and up to date and seems to lead the way for the VA in the states.
I just found out the effects on children of Vietnam Verterans, beside Spina Bifida, Cleft palates, or absent of body parts.
Now the question is how do I prove it.
Thanks

Welcome aboard Dave of Ohio. It's good to see that you have, like me found some very interesting and helpful postings on this site. It is amazing how much information has been withheld by the Governments in the name of Dollars saved.

The Aftermath of War



We found a wounded veteran,

And held him in our hearts.

We've seen the bravest soldier,

Break down and fall apart.



Yet we love our heroes,

Like no other has before.

We're the wives of combat veterans,

In the Aftermath of War.



We had to learn the hard way,

When coping with PTSD,

That their war is never over,

And freedom is never free.



We bandage up their broken hearts,

The best we can each day.

We see the scars upon their souls,

That never go away.



Knowing we can't heal the wounds,

That cut their very core.

We're just trudging through the trenches,

In the Aftermath of War.



We've seen them lose their faith in God,

And in the human race,

As they try to hide the anguish,

That's still written on their face.



We've witnessed all the symptoms,

That they're not willing to admit.

We've dodged the screaming bullets,

And been crawling in the _hit.



We've felt the anger, guilt and blame,

Of these men that we adore.

As we stumble on the battlefield,

In the Aftermath of War.



Each day we share the horrors,

Of a pain they can't forget,

And we feel we lived through combat,

Because we love a vet.



But we are all survivors,

And we're learning how to cope.

Hanging on with all our might,

Just holding onto hope.



And our soldier's heart will cry out,

That they couldn't love us more.

Because we're sitting in their foxhole,

In the Aftermath of War.

By Chris Woolnough


read the rest at

http://groups.msn.com/AftermathofwarcopingwithPTSDtoo/welcome.msnw

More power to you all! Continue to fight for what you believe to be so, do not be put off. The rest of us with a moral conscious are behind your fight, do not think that you are alone there are thoses of us who truely believe that what you are saying is right. You are supported even if you do not know it.

As an ex-partner of a vetI also know what a battle it is to live that life. I left for the reason of my children they did not need to be traumatised by that. I have no contact but my eldest daughter still sends cards and keeps in contact with this sad man who chooses not to battle acoholism and unrational thoughts.

G'day Vets!

The last poster hit it in a nutshell. I am proud of what you had to do - even though horrendous for all.

You should be proud of yourselves - no matter what.

I am the daughter of a WW2 vet. He also had to do terrible things to save this country.

Cheers
Kay

Allow me to introduce myself.
My name is Ken O'Brien. I am a PhD researcher at QUT in Brisbane. I have been researching the transgenerational effects of PTSD for over 21 yrs. I have been making some ground-breaking developments with cutting-edge research into this issue. During the past 21 years I have been studying psychology (though not registered), transgenerational effects of various conditions, and sociology and am a son of a Vietnam vet with PTSD and ex-serviceman myself. My current thesis is to collect the "lived experiences" of children and grandchildren of Vietnam veterans in Australia. The information collected will assist the government to develop and implement appropriate policies and principles for the care, recognition and accommodation of the children and grandchildren of Vietnam veterans who live the legacy.

I strongly urge you to support me in my life quest. I have invested 21 years so far, now, devote the rest of my life.

Please look at the formal site at http://prdrslsb.pointclark.net/index.htm and at the other forum on this site at:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=215

I hope you will join me in this quest for recognition.

My father is a Vietnam Veteran and suffers from a few health problems which have been proven to be the related to the Vietnam War. I am his 32 year old son and was diagnosed with 'Post Traumatic Stress Disorder' in 1999 and in 2006 I have recently spent some time in a Physchiatric Clinic where I have been diagnosed now with 'Bipola Disorder', which the Physch. and Therapist's say I was born with. Is there any compensation or pensions available for this because the hospital bills and medication which I now have to take for the rest of life is very expensive. I don't think that is a coincidence that my dad has health problems and I have as well!

This is SHREDDA again. In my last article, I forgot to mension that my sister was born after dad got back from the war aswell as myself and my sister had ovarian problems and she's had skin problems since she was born. Is it just a coincidence that we both were born after the war; Dad has problems that was caused from the chemicals,insectersides and whatever else... And then both my sis and I also have!

I am not the daughter of a Vet or have any Vets in my immediate family.

I just wanted you all to know that I stumbled across this forum by accident and was horrified at what I read. You fathers and grandfathers served their country in a horrific and incredibly unpopular war. They not only had to deal with the aggression of the enemy but also the aggression of their country men as well. I am too young to have been around then but I just wanted to say how sorry I am.

I have recently been accepted into ADFA to start some postgraduate research which looks at the impact of peacekeeping on soldiers and police. In light of the lessons we've learnt (or should have learnt) from Vietnam I am trying to find out whether or not more is being done for the current batch of ADF/AFP personnel. I really hope so.

If it feels like you have been forgotten, please remember that there are and will always be people out there who want to take the experiences of the past and make the future better. I'm just so sorry that our government can't do the same. I know it doesn't pay the medical bills or ease the pain, or even explain what the hell is going on but know that there are people who care not because they are involved but for reasons that are more to do with humanity than experience.

Erin

I am a 32 year old daughter of a VV, My dad is having a scan today for bowel cancer. I am one of five children all concieved after my dad returned from vietnam, yes we were all his soldiers had a very strict life lived and dealt with the physical emotional and mental abuse, mum is still dealing with it today. I never thought about the impact vietnam had on him, I just thought it was him, I think I have had it easy compared to some of the posts I've read. My parents have 22 grandchildren now,5 of them are my own. I try to make sure I give them a better life than what I had and make sure they are very close and have a good relationship with my husband, I try to block out my childhood and not dwell on the past, but some of my sisters have not been able to. Three of my sisters have not been as strong, and have suffered or is still suffering depression. My dad stayed in the army for 21 years- 21 years of service for a life time of hell and suffering, he has had 2 heart attacks, gets sick all the time, has had stomach problems, he has diabeties, high blood pressure, and now, well I will find out this afternoon if he has cancer. No one deserved to have to go through any of this. there should have been help for them a very long time ago, instead they have had to suffer so have their wives and children and their childrens children. So much death, suicides, broken families, abuse, illnesses, life taken away from them, for them serving our country and for what- thanks for serving, get a plaque, maybe lucky/unlucky enough to recieve TPI and that's all you are worth you did your job and thanks, enjoy the rest of your life, or what life you have left if you could call it a life. Hero's of our country just left to rot and die

mtjab5

Are you aware that all children of Vietnam Vets are entitled to free counselling? The Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service (VVCS) in each state has contract counsellors available, please feel free to use the service if you feel it could help you or your siblings.

Veterans' line - 1800 011 046 (Nationally)

Dobie (Vietnam Vet)

...But the Vietnam experience hovers over everything; it is reactivated by what we hear about Iraq. In that sense a shared parent-child antiwar sentiment may come to reverberate throughout society. We have not heard the last of this poignant generational alliance.
Robert J. Lifton

Daughters of Vietnam Veterans
www.dovv.net

Daughters of Vietnam Veterans
www.dovv.net