Well, Rudd had a choice -- be Christian or be rational. There's really not much you can do in 21st-Century politics to please people whose Holy Book instructs them to kill homosexuals -- not to mention witches and rebellious children. And any attempt to cater to their crazy notions by our next PM will hopefully be suppressed by the thinking majority.

The Christians who think for themselves outnumber those who let themselves be told what to think. He was pitching to the majority.

I think we can call this the first 'gay marriage' election, if Rudd loses it will clearly be because of his apostasy.

If, according to believers, God is the creator and made everything, then he or she made gays and lesbians too. Who are we to criticize the creator or make life difficult for his creations?

Of course, for an atheist like me, this is a non-question but is likely to be a problematic one for believers along with the fact that there is no evidence supporting theological belief of any kind!

Belief is a two-edged sword!

Thinking this is 'the first gay election' shows how totally out of touch some people are. Gay marriage is barely on the radar at this stage in the campaign.

There are three things gays want from this fight.

Marriage, Acknowledgement and acceptance.

I have little doubt, due to the squeaky wheel syndrome, that they will get their wish for marriage, however, I doubt they will even gain acknowledgement and they most certainly won't get acceptance from many within the community.

I doubt they will be able to accept that.

the rational of the god deniers must be that paedophiles are born that way. a number of people I have known swap from one to the other. Anyone who could not see through Rudd from day one really were very naive.

runner, you are so full of hatred you are clearly not a Christian, yet I have seen you refer to a Lord. Are you perhaps a Satanist?

"I think we can call this the first 'gay marriage' election, if Rudd loses it will clearly be because of his apostasy."
Posted by progressive pat, 9:34am

I don't think so: many ppl vote for many reasons - mandates are over-stated.

On that theory of 'Christianity', progressive pat, unless the LNP Leader is campaigning for a prohibition on divorce and remarriage his behaviour is apostate... which he would know because it is near where the suppositories of knowledge are.

Runner... "the rational of the god deniers must be that paedophiles are born that way. a number of people I have known swap from one to the other." makes no more sense then saying any victims of paedophiles at Tony Abbott's alma mater "St. Patrick's Seminary" were forewarned by its name.

Maybe it was a late campaign attempt by Rudd to show the middle finger to islamists?

I doubt most people care enough, either way, to alter their voting intentions with respect to the two major parties and any undecided voters who do are the sort who tend to swing both ways anyhow.

Kevin Rudd is superficial. All things to all men and women. He is notorious for working his claimed faith into his public presentations and for choosing outside churches for media interviews. The Christian-sledging Left 'Progressives' are silent on that, always pretending not to notice, of course. Nothing hypocritical about that. No Siree!

At least that dumpy woman with the over-dyed hair who went before was up-front in some of her hates, examples being families, older people and men. Not unexpected for the educated middle class feminist elite who rub shoulder pads at taxpayer-funded knees-ups at the Hilton. What exaggerated shoulder pads she wore! More like an orange citrus bug. LOL

Well, given a few ignoramus bigots are still welded to stone age philosophy, they may indeed, try to punish Labour in the polls.
However, they are likely to be outvoted around 3 to 1, by "real Christians", who believe Mr Rudd was right.
If we take the bible too literally, we will allow/reinstate slavery and the stoning of adulterers?
And then only on the basis of a pointing accusing finger?
Given genuine Christians believe in universal love and a philosophy of doing unto others as you would be done unto, Mr Rudd's vote may well increase.
If he loses a few bigots votes, he will have lost nothing of any redeeming value!
If these bigots were able to confront the overwhelming and irrefutable facts, that our sexuality is decided for us in the womb, or by the creator; they possibly would not be able to live with themselves, for all the harm they've done or caused!
Hence the refusal to look at the factual evidence? There are none so blind as those who will not see!
I don't need to make some have baked excuse for changing my vote, that validated facts are quite sufficient!
Rhrosty.

All religious texts whether they be Christian, Muslim etc are open to interpretations by adherents with various agenda.
Some interpret these texts as metaphors, some believe in the literal and some just don't believe at all.
In the not so distant past it was virtually unheard of for couples to marry someone from a different denomination, as my parents did, now days it is accepted as normal and unremarkable and I think some will look back and be a little embarrassed by their opposition to gay marriage.
For the majority of people gay marriage is not a big issue.

'runner, you are so full of hatred you are clearly not a Christian, yet I have seen you refer to a Lord. Are you perhaps a Satanist? '

funny enough Candice thats it exactly what Rudd did. Demonised those who disagree with his views. Your tactics don't surprise me. Can't deny simple logic that if a person has a 'homosexual gene' that then they can also have a ' paedophile gene '. Simple observance shows that the 'gene' changes in peoples lives as many turn from 'gay 'to straight and vice versa. Many woman who have had bad experiences with men then decide they are lesbians. Lets not even debate the need of children to have a father because that makes you automatically a person of 'hatred '. The left are pathetic.

Candide

runner is an extremist christian. Just like extremist moslems or jews etc. His god is the god of vengeance and obedience not the god of compassion and love that these liars profess to follow.
His presence here shows us the true filth and hatred that lies at the core of all religions and we should thank him for it.
No amount of kind little old ladies or progressive, caring clergy can hide the bigotry that is inherent in all religion. They hate all who dont agree with them and wish them harm, eternally, even other godbotherers are condemned by these scum. runner is the epitome of this.

There is nothing christian about these people they are nasty, spiteful, closed minded, hypocrites.
Jesus would be sickened by the likes of runner.

mikk

nice of you to confirm what I have written.

""Can't deny simple logic that if a person has a 'homosexual gene' that then they can also have a 'paedophile gene'. ""
Posted by runner, 12:26pm

There is no homosexual gene: it is a false premise, so there is no sound or cogent logic around it. Homosexuals universally testify their sexuality is innate (especially men), but we don't know why. The human 'condition' is a continuum.

It seems to me that this manufactured FAUX outrage is a classic example of how the conservative or right-wing Christian thought police manipulate public emotions negatively.

Remember that Kevin's response to and put-down of the questioner was made at a political election rally.
What other response was possible? Perhaps Kevin should have sat down and had a complex "theological" discussion re the relevant text(s) and the historical/cultural context in which they were written.

Meanwhile Kevin is berated for his Biblical illiteracy. Has anyone questioned/examined the questioner on his Biblical literacy - or lack of it?

Meanwhile Glenn Davies has written an oh-so "poltically correct" seemingly sophisticated response which is featured on the ABC Religion & Ethics website.
The question arises as to how many dreadfully sane faux-outraged Christian true believers who will vote for the political parties approved by the Australian Christian Lobby would have anything like such a seemingly sophisticated understanding of the Old Testament text that Kevin referred to. Or any other verse/text either in the Old or the "New" Testaments.
So too for that matter with Tony Abbott and the other staunch Christian true believers in his soon-to-be cabinet.

The answer is of course hardly any of them.

Their unexamined beliefs being based on the simple/single proposition: The Bible is the infallible "word of 'God'", 'God' said or commanded/mandated it in the Bible, therefore it must be true, and binding on all human beings in all times and places.

'So too for that matter with Tony Abbott and the other staunch Christian true believers in his soon-to-be cabine '

could you please name them Daffy. There might be some hope for our nation after all. As far as I know there are nearly as many god deniers in the Liberals as Labour. Its about time we had some with enough guts to cut the baby cull and the promotion of porn and perversion. Unfortunately plenty of people would like to see that but few pollies with the guts to do anything about it. They would rather be sanctimonious about 'concern 'for the environment. They can no longer bang on about refugees because their conpassionate policies have led to about 4000 drownings according to the PM.

And the Lord sayeth smite those who are different to us. For we are tolerant Christians guided by a book redacted by Romans some time ago. We will forever be disappointed with a world that is secular and free from guilt.

His Eminence

Tomás de Torquemada
"I Discipline to Save Severely".

Who would want the votes of ignorant bigots anyway?

In my experience, people who claim to speak on behalf of Christianity usually represent the views of only a proportion of Christians. This is certainly the case with Adam’s article.

I’m Western Australian Anglican. In its 2012 synod (roughly equivalent to an annual general meeting), a large majority of lay representatives and a significant majority of clergy voted in favour of recognising same-sex civil unions – not quite the same as gay marriage, but certainly reflecting the same values Rudd propounded. Unfortunately, the resolution was overturned by the Archbishop (a synod is not an AGM). But the vote shows that many in mainstream churches recognise the value and legitimacy of gay relationships, and support formal social recognition of them.

I’d be far more inclined to challenge how Rudd’s position on asylum seekers is consistent with Christian principles, than his position on gay marriage.

I think the fatal flaw in any argument relates to religion and politics.

Do we really care or need to know what Rudd or Abbott believe?

The only time we should be concerned is when religious belief imposts on public policy, yes a long bow I know, but really people its 2013, religion is pretty much seen for what it is, morally bankrupt.

As far as I can see, believe what you want, just don't allow your own beliefs to affect others, pretty simple.

Unfortunately fundamental christians like 'Runner' and his ilk will continue to spew forth their hatred no matter what anyone says.

Tragic really, but that is the outcome when one is blind and indoctrinated beyond any sense of what one should call normal, what a wasted life.

Geoff

I have just skimmed through todays Australian and the Herald Sun in my local library - both featured essays on this button-pushing topic. Rick Morton Scripture is All Greek To Rudd in the Oz, and an essay by Andrew Bolt in the Hun.
Both were essentially hysterical and displayed the authors in-your-face religious and cultural illiteracy.
And yet somehow the Oz (in particular) pretends that its function is to "inform" the people. As for the Hun and the dolt - what else could you expect from a tabloid "news"-paper.

Runner please go and jump off the planet and meet your beloved God sooner than later,I bet you don't want to hurry though, as there may be nothing when you get there. One wonders are you talking about Christianity or Religiosity, Christianity is about helping and loving all people, Religiosity is attending church but not practising what you preach, and that would be your make up.
People who follow the Bible are very selective in their readings from it, always the good and never the bad.
The religious right are always at odds, and cannot accept Homosexuality, Voluntary Euthanasia, Abortion, Stem cell research etc, for goodness sake accept people for what they are and not what you want.
Thank goodness I am an Atheist and accept all people, including the religious right, they also have the gene make up , same as Homosexuals, to believe what they believe

Who would want the votes of ignorant bigots anyway?
Marilyn Shepherd,
They are the ALP's backbone so you for one would not want to lose their support.

I don't think there are too many out there who think gays are not equal.

What I do think, and also believe myself, is that gays not equal when it comes to marriage. That's it.

As soon as gays accept the fact that all they need do is find another word for their union, the debate will be over. End of story.

I am not a Christian and approve of gay marriage, but I have friends that are. Most are smart, educated, articulate, generous, and very few would I describe as bigoted. On many issues we agree, faith is not one of them, and is generally not subject to rational debate. They have it, I don't, and we agree to disagree. Most Christians I know, while not approving of gay marriage, find it a relative minor issue with regards to voting, as they consider their religion personal.

KRudd had the opportunity to state his reasons and win over the Christians who don't believe in gay marriage for religious reasons, but don't feel that it is a deal breaker. However, he had to go for the "Gotcha" moment and insult a respected minister, and the Christian faith. This is not a minor issue for whom faith is important, is nothing short of idiotic, and why he has been such a failure as a diplomat and PM.

For two millenia, the monstrous herd of elephants browsing contentedly in the rooms of the Christian bible have not been concerned with gay marriage or refugees (although a certain Samaritan might disagree).
For two millennia the Christian church has simply ignored the worlds of (for instance) Matthew 19:23,24:
“Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God'”.
Jesus Christ. By any comparison between Rudd and Abbott and the people who pay these two to 'represent' them, they are unquestionably 'rich men'.
God in heaven, the bloody Catholic pope is waited on hand and foot, and lives in splendour that could only be the envy of moguls and millionaires.
Christians? Sorry fellas, I think not. According to your holy book, Heaven is shut.
If Messrs Rudd and Abbott were truly Christians, should they not be encouraging their constituents to consume less, scale down economic activity and reject all the trappings of wealth for the good of their immortal souls?
Obviously not.
While perhaps not being so crass as to fully -or publicly- endorse the Wall street credo “greed is good”, both politicians clearly believe that all Australians should aspire to be locked out of Heaven.
If there is one thing both politicians are in absolute lockstep on, it's that all Aussies should all aspire to greater wealth: earn more, consume more, grow the economy, borrow more...
While greed may -arguably- not be good, being rich most certainly is; and to hell with what Jesus reckoned. You can't expect Gods to get everything right, right?
Of the two, at least Rudd makes some pretence to care for the most disadvantaged in society. Abbott unashamedly favours the rich, with tax breaks, family allowances...
If Heaven is a state that genuine Christians aspire to entering, any Christian who votes for the Liberal party is just as hypocritical as both contenders.

Grim,

So you contend that wealth is anti Christian, and so we should vote for Labor and poverty for all?

I don't contend that, Shadow.
Jesus Christ does.

"...and poverty for all?"

Obviously not, Shadow Minister, all politicians have colluded to ensure continued increases to what they regard as their entitlements.

Grim,

If you had read my first post it would have dawned on you that as an atheist, my second post was sarcasm, and a low intellectual bar to leap.

Secondly, having endured a Church school,and being familiar with biblical teachings know that the teaching is more an exhortation against excess than a call to universal poverty, unlike voting for labor.

Shadow Minister: "However, he [Mr Rudd] had to go for the "Gotcha" moment and insult a respected minister, and the Christian faith."

On the contrary, that bigoted creep intruded his superstitions to insult the Prime Minister, and all homosexual people, and all people who are not homosexual but have the decency not to insult or discriminate against others because they are. He also insulted our species' millennia of struggle to evolve into creatures of reason in the teeth of the likes of that creature who have coerced acceptance of their faith-based diktat. Go to i-View and listen again to his blatantly ad-hominem diatribe. What disappointed me was Mr Rudd's unwarrantedly polite forbearance in drawing his response from the same source that "informed" the pastor.

From other posts of the same correspondent I would guess that his ire was motivated not by sympathy for superstitious bigotry but by political opposition to Labor.

EJ,

You make it abundantly clear why Dudd is as popular as a dose of the clap. This is a sensitive issue that requires gentle handling. Dudd only months ago was against gay marriage, and his sudden and convenient conversion is a great source of skepticism. His interaction, while of great amusement to the majority, alienated a significant number of voters that he does not have the luxury of losing.

KRudd has shown again why he is not fit to be PM.

Youtube Video: http://youtu.be/9uBUZKD5Ago
Is not about Kevin right or wrong, he just want to ask a Christian personal question to someone.

Well Matt Prater Pastor is original LNP supporter, how do you know that?
simply go facebook type Matt Prater, in his friend lists search "MP", there only Liberal members supporters he has, non of a Labor member you can find there, what is it wrong? Obviously long before he already the LNP supporter and representing them use this case to share to the believer, so they may believe that Rudd is wrong and shows that he cares about biblical teaching, and the followers of the church and the Christian watched on the TV camera will see him as a hero image that willing to stand up say something, make audience think he is a righteous man, but we don’t know what really behind his purpose, we must know who he support from the very beginning, seeking for his own interest, we can’t decide others life only people who decide it when they know the biblical truth, for God to judge not you and I to judge them, controlling over their life, however we can share, pray, support with love and mercy with unconditional love.
Matthew 7:1-4
1Timothy1:5-11

, how can you really tell he is really stand for the Gay Marriage matter, or he just use his community to play this voting game,

We need to know what is his really purpose and intention behind it, I'm also a Christian but I'm not a fool, we need to discern and understand his true purpose behind and there are people using the leadership role to misuse his power. that just a shock to me unbelievable!.

G'day Shadow,
and thanks for introducing me to this novel concept; sarcasm wow! I'll definitely being looking into this!
Sadly, I didn't have your advantage of a church education, which obviously leaves me with the challenging task of interpreting the written word on my lonesome. I have been somewhat aided in this endeavour, thankfully, by a comparatively recent innovation, introduced by Luther I think, a mere half millenia ago.
I could be wrong -probably am, not having had your educational advantage- but I would have thought the passage was simple enough for a child of moderate intelligence to understand, eg:
“If thou wilt
be perfect, go and sell that thou
hast, and give to the poor, and thou
shalt have treasure in heaven: and
come and follow me.”
As self avowed Christians, should not Messrs Rudd and Abbott be encouraging all Australians to be “perfect”?
One would think a God -by definition- would have a superior insight into the true value of GDP.
Thanks again for introducing me to this thing called sarcasm. I really must try it some time.

Note to Shadow Minister: Bigots merit the sensitivity and gentleness that they bestow on those whom they insult.

MM, Grim, and EJ,

From the exit polls, it looks as though the people of Aus are bestowing on Dudd the respect that he displayed to them.

I hope he loses his own seat

Firstly, the former PM's lambasting of the bigot in our midst, has been a long time coming. Thankfully we are not all non-thinking, irrationals who view the bible as the word of someone else's fantasy, written long after the main protagonists were dead.

The day Xtians realise that they are not the be all and the end all of moral measurement, and accept that they are but a part of a population which has in part, a lot of thinkers, as opposed to fantasists, the better for them and for the rest of us.

If the churches felt that he had humiliated them, sad. If they had utilised it to begin a conversation on faith, that would have been better, but as usual, they didn't.

The only votes he lost were those who don't feel inspired to think for themselves.

".....It has irreparably damaged his once close relationship with the Christian constituency across Australia."

Blatant hypocrisy abounds.

Here's a letter to Tony Abbott from the Bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Darwin (He's a "real" Christian - not a partisan political hack):

http://www.mn.catholic.org.au/news-events/news/2013/letter-from-bishop-eugene-hurley-to-tony-abbott