imajulianutter,

I agree that our culture/society should get back to its "egalitarian roots", but it is in a completely different direction to what you are thinking.

For starters, since we have a "multicultural policy" who are you to (like some Western elitist) imply that the Western/Enlightenment "Egalitarian" values are somehow superior? What would you argue to a Muslim who claimed that women must only be housewives, or to a Strick Catholic or Buddhist who would rather disown their own daughter than allow them to marry outside of their "ethnic ways"?

You see, those egalitarian values are only worth something if people stick up for them, and this means ALL people on earth eventually overcoming their tiny little ethnic/racial/historical identities and realizing that we are ALL humans and we are ALL EQUAL. But whilst our multiclutral policy (and the left) make it impossible for the element in western nations (white, North-European descended peoples) who developed and live by these egalitarian values such that the entire world wishes to live in our nations, to ever make public debate against some "questionable values/beliefs" held by some cultures that are living in our nation on mass (e.g. Muslims and homophobia, female apartheid etc.)?

Think before you engage again, and tell all your nit-wit leftists mates the same, and tell them that merely because a white is poor and without a BA that their opinion, feelings, and very existence and worth do not automatically become worhtless.

Mirko Bargaric's claim that the present boat people mess is a catastrophe for the Greens and the refugee lobby is correct. Ordinary people see that the Marilyn Sheppards, Susieonline and Poirot clones have nothing but contempt for their own society (that they choose to live in) and that they will do anything to destroy it.

People like Rudd thought that sucking up to the educated elite lobby would win them government because of the see sawing 50-50 Labor/Liberal voting patterns. But now Labor has realised that trying to get over the line by instituting unpopular policies that only appeal to a small but significant minority is not going to work if you anger the majority of your traditional electorate that could always be relied upon to vote for you.

The boat people issue is one which absolutely incenses the working and disadvantaged class workers who once voted Labor. They know that the failed policy of multiculturalism is one that affects them personally. They see their suburbs changing from safe places to ones where gun violence and drug trafficking is rampant. They see the latge numbers of immigrants and "asylum seekers" who are permanently on the dole and they know that they are the ones footing the bill.

There is a clear dividing line between the educated elites and the working/disadvantaged classes whom the elites presume to be the leaders of. The elites look down their noses at the social inferiors while the workers sneer right back at them. Anything which increases that hostility is good for Australia. The sooner that the elites realise that their advocacy of every cause which harms their own people is making them utterly despised, the better.

Mirko, thank you for a very good exposition of the problem.

I'd like to agree with your conclusions as well, but I have some nagging concerns that aren't addressed.

The first is the obvious problem with the hazardous nature of the trips undertaken by people seeking asylum. Whether they are relatively well off or otherwise, they are people and they are dying to get here. We can't accept that as reasonable.

Second, we have limited capacity to sustain a larger population and while we certainly could do so, we do nobody any favours if we destroy our own capacity in the process.

Third, I see nothing especially morally indecent about self-selection of the most capable, although I can see some traps. If I had my family in a refugee camp I would be doing everything possible to get them out. However, I would feel bad about leaving others behind. In some people this might lead to a self-justifying elitism. Others might become zealots in arguing special causes, leading to unbalanced discussion of human rights issues.

We have already seen both of these things in those who escaped the Holocaust and their descendants.

Fourth, we have to be wary of creating unintended consequences. At the risk of being branded anti-Semitic, the state of Israel, for all its wonderful accomplishments, has also created an enormous amount of suffering and disruption. At every point in its progress it has been the product of the best of intentions, but nonetheless bad outcomes have followed. Many of the asylum seekers we see are because of the disruptive effects of the Israeli state and the elitist zionists who control US foreign policy, and all of the people who control those organisations would be sincere in saying they want only the best.

I think our first priority has to be to buy some time to properly address the problem. We must help those in need, but to do that we need to be somewhat Olympian in our vision. We can't allow ourselves to act in haste and stubbornly persist when things are obviously not getting better.

Everyone knows that Australians are racists because "Australians are racists" is possibly the most talked about topic in Australia which is pretty ironic. In fact, one of the biggest insults in our culture is to call someone a racist. In addition, the accusation of racism is used most cleverly to impose guilt on anyone suggesting an exclusionist policy.

We did this because our grandparents and great grandparents read Enid Blyton and saw no offence in the words "fuzzy-wuzzy", "gollywog" etc. While the more hateful epithets were avoided as uncouth or rude the patronizing terms that described those of other races as cute or pleasant and yet inferior were seen as merely describing reality.

We have come a long way in the last fifty years and while intolerance of race, nationality, ideology, religion and culture remains with us as an ongoing struggle it is a struggle we are actually fighting.

Unfortunately, this isn't true in the rest of the world. And, it is particularly untrue in those places where most of the emigration is occurring. The majority of them are victims of racial, cultural, class or religious intolerance or they tried unsuccessfully to impose their thinking upon the majority earning enmity for their efforts.

I just want us to be realistic. Across Europe disaster looms as Western societies governed by principles of tolerance have become a soft touch for foreign ideologies seeking dominance. We must be compassionate and tolerant but tolerance must also be a requirement for anyone wishing to become an Australian.

Come of the grass Moiteeki, if you want people to pay attention you'll have to stop spinning a line of bull droppings.

To start with no one on Oz is making these illegal boat people do anything. Apart from perhaps people like you & the lovely Marilyn, Ozzies don't want to have anything to do with them. We promise to totally ignore them, if they will just stay out of our lives.

If they chose to insert themselves in our lives they can consider themselves damn lucky we don't brush them out of our way like any other annoying nuisance.

With this new policy, which I find objectionable on behalf of the people of PNG, no one is forcing these gatecrashers to do anything. Out of our extreme generosity I'm sure we would pay to fly them home, if they would rather go home, than to PNG.

All we are saying with this policy, as with the previous successful policy is that we will choose our neighbors, & they are not chosen. They may choose their own neighbors, just not in Oz.

Now I don't know why it is so hard for some to understand that don't want these people here. We are already having too much trouble with the lying conniving lot that came before them from their home countries, & have no interest in having any more of this imported rubbish behavior.

Question:

Will the PNG plan survive a court challenge?

If not will Rudd or Abbott or whoever is PM when the courts reject this be able to get a "send them to PNG" bill through parliament?