Thanks Banjo.

However, there is a big difference between a 'belief' in something, and actually having proof that something is real.

Many kids believed in, and had faith in, Father Christmas, Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. That doesn't make them real.

No one has proof of actually seeing a God, and we only have some books written by humans actually saying what Gods are supposed to have said.

Doesn't it make you wonder how us mere humans got on before these books were written, and rewritten, and amended, etc?

suze,

I'm not a Christian, but I'm interested in why people believe - what is it that convinces them. rational-debate pointed out John Lennox who is mathematician and a scientist, so belief is not restricted to those without scientific credentials.

I'm also interested in the psychology of how humans cope with being alive and what comfort they derive from belief in a deity.

Talking of the modern secular world, I read the other day that of the 31,000 deaths by firearm annually in the US - nearly 20,000 of them are suicides.

3 high school students suicide every week in Australia.

Why are we so unhappy with our rational world?

Poirot

Perhaps we are unhappy with our irrational world - the one where clergy who are meant to be the epitome of religious goodness abuse children, the one where clergy urge their followers to kill, the one where churches turn their backs on people who have been damaged by their representatives in contravention of their teachings.

Given that religious belief is very high in the USA, a majority of their suicides are probably believers.

And I'm not an angry atheist, rational debate, but I do have trouble understanding the need some people have to believe in the unprovable. Perhaps it is because I have a poorly developed 'god spot' in my brain. On reflection, I do get very annoyed when people push the 'our lord' stuff at me. They are welcome to 'their lord' but I draw the line at being included in their delusion.

Dear Poirot,

<<I'm not a Christian, but I'm interested in why people believe -what is it that convinces them.>>

I'm not a Christian either, but I think I can answer your questions.

Belief is, for most, an excellent religious technique, especially when it includes devotion to the object of belief.

It's very valuable to be able to suspend one's reliance on objective facts and ultimately wean ourselves from the influence of the objective.

The techniques of belief were designed before the scientific era, hence they had no intent to describe the objective world. Had they been designed today, they would probably include a preamble: "Please withdraw your attention from the external, objective world, operating instead on the basis of the following story and devoting your life to the service of the deity(s) therein. Begin with one minute twice a day, then gradually increase the time to two, three, five minutes, etc. until you can eventually suspend your interest in the world indefinitely."

That some people are convinced that the objects of their belief are within the objective material world, is due to the clash with modern-science which places such importance on knowing the world. Such errors, unless corrected, are detrimental to religion because they draw the aspirant's attention back into the world.

<<I'm also interested in the psychology of how humans cope with being alive and what comfort they derive from belief in a deity.>>

Being alive is not a problem, but being attached to the world is. Religious techniques, belief included, loosen this attachment, hence reduce the pain (comfort is simply the absence of pain).

<<Why are we so unhappy with our rational world?>>

Firstly the world isn't at all rational. You seem to mistake 'objective' (eg. external, similarly-perceived by all beings) for 'rational'. There is nothing especially rational in accepting the world as real only because others perceive it similarly, so one can readily share their experiences of the world with others).

The world is finite, perishable, addictive, meaningless and full of sorrows. Most importantly, we know deep inside that it is unreal, that it is an illusion.

The kind of religion that Sells promotes lies entirely within the spectrum of reductionist exoteric literalism and no amount of appealing to some kind of expanded metaphorical understanding can or will make the slightest bit of difference to anything. It is completely devoid of any kind of psychic or Spiritual depth or, put in another way it lies completely within the doubt-mind described by these references.
The first essay was originally published as The Psychosis of Doubt.
http://www.adidam.org/teaching/gnosticon/universal-scientism
http://www.beezone.com/AdiDa/nirvanasara/chapter1.html
This reference points out that all of what is promoted as religion fits within the first three stages of life, and that the Process of Spiritual religion only begins when one has awakened into the fourth stage.
http://www.aboutadidam.org/growth/seven_stages.html

Speaking of ding-bat literalism some literalistic Christians are now trying to argue that Adam & Eve were actual historically existing human beings. Such is an absurd proposition. By contrast this reference gives an esoteric Spiritual Understanding of Adam & Eve in the Garden of Indestructible Light
http://www.beezone.com/adidajesus/adamnervoussystemeveflesh.html

These references point to an Esoteric understanding of the original Christian message.
http://www.beezone.com/esoteric_christianity.htm
The Resurrection & The Body of Light
http://www.theosophical.org/publications/quest-magaine/1690

the simple fact that athiests deny the corrupt nature of man demonstrates clearly that they are not into observing as part of their 'scientific' quest. Nothing sadder than pride and self righteousness that prevents people from turning to the Only One who can forgive their sins. Yep its ugly but mankind is rotton to the core. Thankfully God has provided a solution.