Dear Stephan,

You are correct. Moral and legal are not the same thing. What is legal is defined by legislation. What is moral is defined by society and the individual. There is no question that abortion is legal in the country we live in. Morality is a more subjective matter. My moral sense tells me that abortion is moral under most circumstances, and a pregnant woman should have the right to decide for herself under most circumstances whether she wants to have an abortion. You would deny her that right as you apparently think abortion is immoral. Since neither you nor I have the right to decide what is moral for other people we will continue to maintain our differing views on the morality of abortion.

We differ on what is moral. However, what is permitted without legal penalty in a particular society is determined by legality not morality. I am satisfied that legal abortion is consistent with what I think is moral. You have the right to try to change the law so it is more consistent with your views.

David f, you state "What is moral is defined by society and the individual."
I am not sure this is so. By that definition, what the Nazi's did to the Jews was moral. Australia historic treatment of Aboriginies was moral and Indonesian treatment of cattle is also moral.
I myself believe that moral right and wrong is not simply about personal preference, nor is it about imaginary gods and ancient texts, but must be based on something deeper.
Most people would agree it is immoral to kill humans (unless in self defence). Pro-choicers usually claim that the foetus is not human and use all manner of tricky arguments to support this claim. Having examined many of these arguments, I see them more as an attempt to justify abortion rather than an effort to see what is really right or wrong.
The moral ill you commit when you kill the foetus is taking away its opportunity to live out the rest of its life. Just as if you kill a new born baby or an adult human you take away their potential to live out their life. This is what is immoral. The size of the bunch of cells is irrelevant.
There may be situations where it is justifiable to kill the unborn, just as there are situations where its justifiable to kill children or adults. However, in our society these justifications would be few and far between.

"It is clear you are avoiding the evidence presented because it does not suit your baby-killing ideology"

At no point did I promote abortion, I am simply disagreeing with your logic and refuting your flawed reasoning. There is no right or wrong answer on when we value a human life enough to prevent it's death. It seems you are both against contraception, and believe that human life is highly valuable at conception. If this is the case, then why are you bothering about human-induced abortion? Don't you know that for every human-induced abortion there are hundred, if not thousands of humans that die, either before or after birth? If you really cared you would be doing something about this. So do you really care or are you just a hypocrite?

Dear Rhys Jones,

What the Nazis did to the Jews was moral in their terms. I don't agree with that morality, but the most of the German churches in following Hitler did.

One philosophical discussion is based on whether there can be an objective morality. I think that morality is subjective and some other people think there can be an objective morality.

In the Bible God commands the Hebrews to commit genocide.

Joshua 8:18 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Stretch out the spear that is in thy hand toward Ai; for I will give it into thine hand. And Joshua stretched out the spear that he had in his hand toward the city. ... 8:24 And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword. 8:25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai. 8:26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.

The Bible has many ugly passages such as the above. Joshua was not better than Hitler. Yet many people follow the Bible as a moral guide. IMHO the Bible isn't worth a pail of warm spit when it comes to morality. Morality is subjective, and the God of the Bible can be evil.

Stezza: 'If this is the case, then why are you bothering about human-induced abortion?'

There is a long list of natural reasons why ova fail to implant and pregnancies miscarry etc. The reasons would be pretty hard to predict and manage, so we have to accept them.

For the few that actually implant and get going, it seems to me a great pity that the choices of those already on the 'outside' should be added to that list.

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Abortion & Morality

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Science has no universally accepted clear-cut definition of when life begins.

Popular culture has it that life begins at birth.

The law defines the conditions of abortion.

The principal religions oppose abortion.

In some countries the law and religious dogma coincide but in many they differ.

Pregnancy results from the relationship of a man and a woman.

Only the woman becomes pregnant. Not the man.

The consequences of abortion affect the woman. Not necessarily the man.

Legislation authorising the termination of pregnancy, under certain conditions, re-establishes the balance of the scales of justice between the man and the woman with regard to the law.

No such mechanism exists in religion. The scales of "Devine justice" remain in net imbalance at the distinct disadvantage of the woman.

In addition, both the woman and the man, as well as society as a whole, must compose, each, with her/his/its particular sense of morality and/or code of ethics.

This poses a problem for people who want their world to be black and white and their morals to be absolute.

As for the rest of us, we do the best we can under the circumstances to respect our ideals of humanity and personal responsibility.

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