"We often hear about fluoride benefits from dentists, but let's face it, the training of these people doesn't go far beyond the mouth. How well informed are they about the effects of ingestion?"

Dentistry training is a five-year course which goes well beyond 'the mouth'. Coupled with this is the fact that any dentist who has practiced in both fluoridated and non-fluoridated areas has direct and immediate personal experience of the benefits of fluoridation. These are well documented in the literature of the discipline.

To claim that dentists are not qualified to attest to the benefits of fluoridation is to expose the magnitude of your own ignorance.

I support the freedom to choose. Thanks for your article

Wow. Your standards are slipping, OLO. Fluffy, unreferenced, lightweight codswallop.
It is a demonstrably effective publich health measure. Comparing it to nicotine patches (only smokers benefit) is an obviously ludicrous analogy. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel. And leave dentists alone, they actually HAVE qualifications in this area.

"Do we have sufficient information to develop an informed opinion? If we don't, should we really guzzle down a chemical most of us don't understand?"

Doesn't seem like we have sufficient information to write an article... isn't it a molecule, not a chemical?

"... a freelance writer in Brisbane who is completing a Master of Public Health"

I hope that is a typo and should have read 'commencing a Master of Public Health'.

Obviously not. I am with Emily on this one.
Check out http://fluoride.mercola.com
One of the doctors/scientists that he features is Paul Connett the author of The Case Against Fluoride.

NO SAFETY DATA EXISTS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD

http://dianabuckland.webs.com/nosafetydatafl.htm
How could it? we were not meant to consume in everything we eat, drink and bathe in S6,S7 Corrosive 8 hazardous waste pollutants fluorosilicic acid/silicofluorides and co-contaminants of lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium etc. (sourced from phosphate mining & aluminium smelting) & added also is aluminium sulphate. The dental crisis in USA & Australia after up to 67 and up to 59 years respectively of water fluoridation/pollution prove it's an absolute shocking fraud and failure.

This is absolutely obscene that The Fluoridation Fraud has been allowed to continue by successive State and Federal Governments. End the Fluoridation Fraud/Fluoridation Dictatorship now and ban water fluoridation urgently and  irrevocably for all time.

The only answer EVER was to provide access to affordable dental health care services for all the population, not the disposal of hazardous waste pollutants and co-contaminants into our drinking water supplies and hence also the contamination of our food chain and using the populations' kidneys as hazardous waste disposal/filtration units. Stop this chronic poisoning of the population, pets and environment immediately.

I have compiled some information here> Download Full Report >
http://fluorideinformationaustralia.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/report-water-fluoridation-pollution-must-end-diane-drayton-buckland-independent-researcher-14th-january-2013.pdf

Sodium Flouride is a poison.Read the safety advice on your toothpaste.Hitler used it on the Jews.

One commentor suggests that Dentists know best.Did they know best when thay put amalgams in our teeth? Mercury is one of the most deadly metals known to man.They used to stiffen hats with mercury which sent people crazy.Hence we have the expression,"Mad as a hatter."

Fluoride isn't a single chemical, it's a compound, or if you will, a salt.
Fluoride occurs naturally in nature, but only as calcium fluoride.
It only ever hardens tooth enamel as it passes over around the teeth and reacts with it or is absorbed in PPM.
Calcium fluoride is also an essential in cell development/renewal.
However, sodium fluoride is a man made compound or a waste product of aluminium smelting.
It is highly toxic and as such, is an excellent rat poison.
Dentists will confirm, it only ever benefits the teeth as it washes over and around them.
That there is no point in taking fluoride tablets, given once ingested, it does absolutely nothing for tooth enamel.
Yet this same group keep on insisting we are mass medicated with SODIUM FLUORIDE.
Some very long term studies in the US seem to indicate that this practise may be implicated in bone deformities, and may be cumulative and carcinogenic?
Why sodium fluoride?
Well as a industrial waste product, it is cheap!
Moreover, unlike calcium fluoride, it doesn't stain the teeth brown, which is the principle result of drinking naturally fluoridated water.
One would suggest it be taken as a voluntary supplement, used as a gargle, several times a day, be included in all toothpaste, and people brush and floss not less than three times a day.
That Calcium fluoride be included in chewing gum, and that everyone with their own teeth, chew that after meals.
Dentists are not doctors, are not as well trained in general medicine, and are clearly not cognisant of the long term SODIUM FLUORIDE studies in the US, which indicate some possible problems, and possible extremely expensive class actions, against all those who've been implicated in any way, in forcing rat poison down the necks of the populace.
Any published evocation, ought to be kept as possible future, hard copy, evidence!
Anyone would think, that these advocates, had significant shareholdings in bottled water companies or tank manufacturers, or Memtech filter supply companies, all the options available, to avoid illegal, mass medication!
Rhrosty.

"It is a demonstrably effective publich health measure."
Posted by stickman

I'm getting depressed seeing the price of electricity going up, and reading poor spelling.

Maybe the government can mass medicate the drinking water with anti-depressants as well?

Where do some of you get off thinking you have a right over my body? I own a toothbrush and paste, as do my family. We even know how to use them.

What Australia needs is tooth brush courses for those that think like Stalin.

Fluoride has been in our water supply here in Australia for decades.
Do we have massive numbers of people experiencing symptoms of poisoning ?
No we don't.

Do we have much improved teeth amongst our population?
Yes we do.

That's enough for me.

This is one for the tin foil hat brigade. I'm all for individual rights but this is where the libertarians fall flat on their face. Anti- immunization supporters the same. If flouride was a problem I think we'd know by now, don't you?.

Susanonline.Sodium Flouride is a cumulative poison and like "Boiling frogs syndrome" we will realise it too late.What studies have they done to prove it's safety? Don't we have enough toxins already in our bodies? Also,where is our freedom to choose?

It would be better to use Calcium Flouride but then they'd have no where to sell their industrial waste.

Obama has just past legislation to increase drasically the allowable levels of radiation in the environment.They also did this in Fukushima.Some say cancer levels rise from 1:10,000 to less than 1:100.Can we trust our Govts?

Arjay, the people in our Governments live in our society too, so I doubt they would be likely to 'poison' themselves and their families.

Fluoride has been in our water supply long enough to show it's benefits outweigh any problems...if there are any.

Google dental cavities and see which side effects you would prefer...

Well said suseonline, and hello flat earth society members.

And aussiedavo - humblest apologies for my egregious TYPO of 'publich'

That is not a spelling error, if you don't know the difference then I won't bother trying to enlighten you. And if that depresses you, then I am not sure how you get out of bed each day, frankly.

The fluoridation of our water over the past few decades has corresponded with a lowering of the rate of tooth decay and the increase in longevity.

As far as sodium fluoride being a poison, the answer is that every chemical is poisonous if a sufficient dose is given. However, at the quantities contained in water, there is no evidence of any adverse effects, but plenty of evidence of benefits.

The anti Fluoridation campaign is brought to us by the same idiots that are bringing back previously endangered diseases such as whooping cough.

Dennis Stevenson, a former Parliamentarian and Member of the ACT Legislative Assembly Fluoridation Inquiry (1989-91). The majority of inquiry members would not report the scientific, medical, dental and court evidence received in worldwide submissions proving that fluoridation causes disease, deaths, tooth decay and is useless and environmentally destructive. Dennis put this evidence in a 177 page Dissenting Report, part of this major government report, but longer than the 131 page section which attempted to suppress the evidence.

For over 100 years, science and medicine have understood the poisonous nature of fluoride. In the 1930's and 40's, giant US companies, e.g. ALCOA, were sued for millions of dollars due to toxic fluoride waste escaping from factory smokestacks killing crops and livestock. ALCOA's owners (Mellon) figured that if people could be persuaded fluoride isn't poisonous but is good for teeth, profits could be protected. So, to introduce water fluoridation, they hired the brilliant 'father of propaganda' Edward L. Bernays. Joined later by other fluoride polluting industries (e.g. nuclear) and the multi-billion dollar sugar, toothpaste, confectionary and soft drink industries, they became strong financial supporters of dental associations that promoted fluoridation. One such support group, the Dental Health Education & Research Foundation (DHERF) was founded in Australia in 1962. Its Governors, Members and donors comprised key representatives from Coca-Cola, CSR, Kelloggs, Colgate-Palmolive, Wrigleys, Arnotts, Scanlens, Cadbury Schweppes, etc.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/33574

EPA has more than enough evidence to shut down fluoridation right now. (Dr. Robert Carton)
Fluoridation, says former EPA senior scientist Robert J. Carton, PhD, presents unacceptable risks to public health, and the government cannot prove its claims of safety. When this man talks of fluoridation dangers, it is time to listen. I am pleased to present the following exclusive interview, in edited form, with this outspoken EPA dissenter.
http://www.doctoryourself.com/carton.html
Dr. Carton in Fluoridegate - Fluoridegate  - The Film - http://youtu.be/zpw5fGt4UvI 

In point of fact, fluorine causes more human cancer death, and causes it faster, than any other chemical. Dr. Dean Burk, PhD, former chief of cytochemistry at the U.S. National Cancer Institute for thirty years.       

Just having a quick look at the evidence it appears that fluoride in the water probably does have some benefits for the teeth, but not a huge amount. Furthermore the same or better results are achieved through fluoride in toothpaste.
Given that tooth decay is seldom fatal, i don't see why anyone should have the right to force me to take it.
Even if it is quite beneficial, this still doesn't justify forcing the entire population to take a medication.
For those that would defer the decision to dentists, that's fine. You can add fluoride to your own water. I myself am far more sceptical about the omniscience of any of the medical professions. Whilst these people may have trained extensively, like the medical profession, much of the training is based on handing down the orthodox views of the profession, which may or may not be correct. Once a belief becomes orthodox, it takes an enormous amount of evidence to have it overturned

NOT SAFE NOT EFFECTIVE
Tasmania longest fluoridated/polluted State of Australia - first fluoride polluted in 1953 worst dental health and in crisis high saturation rate of fluoridation (hazardous waste pollutants) - 27th February, 2013 - Tasmania will receive an extra $12 million from the Federal Government to reduce public dental waiting lists. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-27/extra-dental-dollars-to-reduce-waiting-lists/4542450?section=tas

Australia wide is in dental crisis despite this widespread high percentage fluoridation saturation Australia wide for decades & USA also in dental crisis after 67 years of water fluoridation/pollution.

DENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM IN DECAY
Dr Deborah Cole is chief executive officer of Dental Health Services Victoria. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/a-system-in-decay-20120107-1ppd0.html

REPORT WARNS $10B NEEDED TO FIX DENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM February 28, 2012 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-28/national-dental-health-opens-denticare-debate/3856134

Note Tasmania first fluoridated in 1953 POOR ORAL HEALTH PUTTING HOSPITALS UNDER PRESSURE – TASMANIA
BY JODIE STEPHENS 26 Feb, 2012
http://www.examiner.com.au/story/431159/poor-oral-health-putting-hospitals-under-pressure/

NSW 96% 'FLUORIDATED' - Sydney since 1968 DENTAL CRISIS EXPOSES GREAT DIVIDE By Jonathan Pearlman and Gerard Ryle February 15, 2005
Public dental health in NSW is in a state of serious neglect, with some patients waiting eight years for attention and the number of children needing hospital treatment doubling over the past decade.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Health/Dental-crisis-exposes-great-divide/2005/02/14/1108229934499.html

TUCSON STUDY FINDS FLUORIDE PROMOTES TOOTH DECAY ‐ 1992 http://afgen.com/fluoridation.html

INSTITUTE OF SCIENCE IN SOCIETY Science Society Sustainability
NO TO FLUORIDATION - 
DENTAL DISEASE INCREASES SIX‐FOLD BY FLUORIDATION http://www.i-sis.org.uk/NotoFluoridation.php

AUSTRALIAN DENTAL ASSOCIATION INC. POLICY STATEMENT
COMMUNITY ORAL HEALTH PROMOTION FLUORIDE USE
Extract: 2 Policy
. 2.1 Water Fluoridation The Australian Dental Association recommends :
2.1.5 That Governments must adopt water fluoridation as part of Health Policy and actively promote its introduction, where it is feasible, as a public health measure.

WHY DO THE ADA (& AMA) HAVE THE POLITICAL POWER TO CHRONICALLY POISON A NATION?? With decade$ of water fluoridation/pollution and we are in dental crisis, why do you think the ADA & their associate$/intere$t$ continue with this fraud?

The only answer EVER was to provide access to affordable dental health care services for all the population, not the disposal of hazardous waste pollutants and co-contaminants into our drinking water supplies also contaminating our food chain & environment.

My children have no cavities .

I had a mouthful as a child.

Do we have to debate this issue ?

It is a "no brainer" for floride.

Ralph

The benefits of fluoride were demonstrated both by the decline in dental caries following its introduction and the increase in dental caries as bottled beverages replaced tap water as the drink of choice of young Australia. Just what sort of dental care, apart from fluoride, can actually prevent tooth decay?

There is more evidence of damage caused by dihydrogen monoxide than fluoride.

In addition to my previous postings:-
REMEMBER, Despite decades of water fluoridation /pollution Australia wide is in dental crisis as is USA after up to 67 years of it.

This Propaganda from Dr. Young IS TOTALLY UNTRUE:- Dr Jeannette Young, Queensland Health, Chief Health Officer said fluoridation was one of the few areas in medicine that was "absolutely black & white" and pointed to Townsville as a prime example."Townsville has had fluoride in its water supply since 1964 & the only difference between Townsville & the rest of the state was that they had far better teeth," she said. "Numerous studies have shown kids in Townsville have between 40-60% less tooth decay."

NOW FOR THE TRUTH ABOUT TOWNSVILLE :- go here > http://fluorideinformationaustralia.wordpress.com/ama-ada-dentists/ada-usa-au-ama/

See documents under Townsville - read everything & take particular note in the Response to claims Townsville fluoridated since 1965 residents have been guinea pigs for fluoridation - note Media Release from Minister for Tourism, Regional Development & Industry Dec. 4, 2007

TOWNSVILLE SCHOOL KIDS TO TRIAL A TREATMENT TO STOP TOOTH ROT ! - water fluoridation/pollution is not effective & it's not safe - (they’ve had water fluoridation/pollution since 1965) and this is in addition to having multiple dental vans visiting the schools & a very lucrative DENTAL INDUSTRY - get the picture?

Townsville Dental Company buys stadium name rights Feb.19, 2013 http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2013/02/19/375754_news.html

then see here >http://fluorideinformationaustralia.wordpress.com/ama-ada-dentists/fluoridation-more-dentists/

Tasmania longest fluoridated/polluted State of Australia - comm.1953 worst dental health & in crisis despite high saturation rate of fluoridation(hazardous waste)- 27th Feb. 2013 - Tasmania will receive an extra $12 million from the Federal Government to reduce public dental waiting lists. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-27/extra-dental-dollars-to-reduce-waiting-lists/4542450?section=tas

The only answer EVER was to provide access to affordable dental health care services for all the population, not the disposal of hazardous waste pollutants and co-contaminants of lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, etc., from phosphate fertiliser industries (and aluminium smelting industries) (known as water fluoridation, plus aluminium sulphate) into our drinking water supplies and hence also contaminating our food chain and using the populations' kidneys as toxic waste disposal/filtration units.

This Fluoridation Fraud/Fluoridation Dictatorship must end.

Gee Diane, calm down!
Just get yourself a water filter!

Fluoride should be by choice, take pills if you like toxic waste. I have seen other effects of fluoride on cattle and the locking up of soil minerals that we all need. Superphosphate carries a lot of fluoride and causes bloat in cattle which kills a % every spring also stops mushrooms from forming. All over it is useless for teeth and anyone that says otherwise has been badly misinformed. Big bis. makes money from selling a waste that can not even be dumped at sea. Tasmanian kids have the worst teeth in the nation but have had mind bending fluoride since the early 60ies. Cheers old Bob

>>As far as sodium fluoride being a poison, the answer is that every chemical is poisonous if a sufficient dose is given. However, at the quantities contained in water, there is no evidence of any adverse effects, but plenty of evidence of benefits.<<

Well said.

I looked up some numbers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_lethal_dose

NaF has an LD50 of 52 mg/kg (rats, oral). That makes it less toxic than capsaicin, the molecule that makes chillies hot (47.2 mg/kg). But people eat chillies all the time and nobody gets sick and dies from the capsaicin. That's because although the capsaicin is fairly toxic - more toxic than NaF - the dose you get from even a very hot chilli dish is minute and not dangerous. It's the same with NaF - if you ate a heap of it you'd be in a bit of a pickle but the dose you get from drinking fluoridated water is minute and harmless.

Cheers,

Tony

>>mind bending fluoride<<

Well this is a new one :)

Enlighten me Old Bob: exactly what psychotropic effects do you imagine fluoridated water to have? And more importantly: will a foil thought-protection helmet provide adequate safeguard against these effects?

Cheers,

Tony

NO! This toxic super phosphate fertiliser bi-product (not joking) is not acceptable in my drinking water.

Nobody forces you to drink tap water. Therefore not forced medication. I wonder if there are any conspiracy theories these people don't believe? Must be a scary and confusing world for them.

Jon J, you sound like just one more deluded dentist who hasn't bothered to research the subject properly. The fact is that most dentists know very little about toxicology, and when they pretend they do they make fools of themselves.

Wm Trevor wrote "isn't it a molecule, not a chemical?" Molecules ARE chemicals, genius. Hexafluorosilicic acid, sodium hexafluorosilicate, and sodium fluoride are all molecules, except that they dissociate in water. The free fluoride ions which are released are also a chemical, but not molecules because they are not chemically bound to anything.

Arjay, there is very little evidence that Hitler used fluoride on the Jews.

Rhrosty, calcium fluoride does occur in nature, but it isn't the only natural form of fluoride. Calcium fluoride is also toxic, albeit to a lesser extent than sodium fluoride and silicofluorides, and it is not essential in cell development/renewal. No form of fluoride is required for human health. These days, industrial grade hexafluorosilicic acid and sodium hexafluorosilicate from the wet scrubbers of phosphate fertiliser factories are mostly used for artificial water fluoridation.

Suseonline and Atman, what you have written is anti-intellectual twaddle. Determining the consequences of fluoride ingestion, and potentially skin absorption, requires well-designed scientific research, as was the case with smoking. Enough research has been known to know that the benefits of fluoridation are small or non-existent. There has also been enough research to know that the negative health consequences are considerable, but not enough to accurately gauge their magnitude.

Shadow Minister, being lectured to by complete ignoramuses like you is par for the course in this debate. You evidently haven't grasped basic logic, haven't bothered to research the subject, and don't understand the difference between concentration and dose, or the difference between acute toxicity and chronic toxicity, or the concept of chemical sensitivity. Rates of tooth decay have fallen dramatically over the past several decades throughout the developed world, with or without fluoridation. Fluoridation hasn't been in place long enough to know its impact on longevity, and death is not the only serious adverse health effect.

Ralph Bennett, yes, apparently you are a "no brainer for floride [sic]".

Tony Lavis, there are some major problems with your comparison between sodium fluoride and capsaicin. Fluoride accumulates in the body continuously over a person's lifetime, unless the rate of intake substantially declines, unlike capsaicin. Some people are sensitive to capsaicin, and some are sensitive to fluoride. I happen to be sensitive to both, which is probably not just a coincidence. Capsaicin activates the TRPV1 receptor and ion channel, which is what causes the burning sensation, and fluoride sensitises TRPV1. I can easily choose to avoid capsaicin, but avoiding fluoride via water fluoridation is extremely difficult.

Stezza, apparently ignorance is bliss for you.

WEST, Texas. Yesterday a horific accident occurred at a Fertiliser Industry in this small town in America. ABC radio this morning were speaking with the local Fire Fighting people. This company had been storing drums of chemicals for 50 years. What did these drums contain?
A Melbourne Fire Brigade spokesman said that ammonia mixed with oxygen can cause this sort of fire. He was asked where was fertiliser made in Australia, he answered very carefully about how it is usually shipped in; Red Symonds asked him were there any fertiliser companies he knew of. No. Not one mention of Incitec Pivot in Geelong. or Orica once their parent company. So you see folks everyone is dodging the facts. The answer you will be given if you ask about "hydrofluorosilicic acid" will be, we cannot store it -therefore we need to put it in the water supplies, where it is safe and effective for dental benefit. It is time we questionned why we need to dose ourselves with China's rubbish, Belgium's rubbish, whilst Dentists and Medicos are not taught in University just what it is we are ingesting. Time to question, perhaps we should all write to Incitec Pivot at North Shore 3215. Also ask how "hydrofluorosilicic acid" is made - in the smokestacks of the fertiliser industry, scrubbed down and mixed with water. Then dumped in our tap water. Also those of you pro. also ask how it is handled, is it volatile, etc. you may be surprised. HAZCHEM suits come to mind and special trucks for transport.

It's been quite interesting following the information on this thread. I had no idea where the fluoride added to water supplies came from.

About thirty years ago, I developed some kind of reaction to fluoride toothpaste, where I began experience multiple painful mouth ulcers. Initially, I put this down to something viral because the condition waxed and waned - until I decided that maybe it was connected to fluoride. So I started using non-fluoridated toothpaste and the ulcer eruption never reappeared.

We live in a area without fluoridated water. My son who is eleven also uses the non-fluoridated toothpaste. He doesn't eat many lollies or drink sweet drinks and he has no cavities and strong teeth

Appreciated the explanation, Dan Germouse... and as for "...genius. " thanks, well spotted. My attempts at irony amuse me in making a point even at the cost of missing the mark for some, occassionally.

""Do we have sufficient information to develop an informed opinion? If we don't, should we really guzzle down a chemical most of us don't understand?"

Doesn't seem like we have sufficient information to write an article... isn't it a molecule, not a chemical?"

That chemical we're guzzling down being...? What?

Dihydrogen monoxide? Molecules of water? Or compounds including fluorides?

I remain critical of an article, by someone completing 'a Master of Public Health', which presents an issue that 'compounds' (geddit?) the confusion.

"Even with the recent changes in Queensland that will allow the fluoridation debate to occur at a local level, at the end of the day, someone will have the power to make a call on the behalf of a community and decide what's best for their health."

Yes. That is sort of the idea behind the concept of 'public health'.

"Whether they actually know what they're on about is anybody's guess."

Who? The local level community, 'someone' or sensitive individuals such as yourself.

Well Tony, must tell you I don't need a helmet just a water proof skin and a thick one to stop fluoride soaking through the largest organ of our body. As for effects non poisoned people can see the 1000 yard stare long time users get. Did you know beer is made with fluoride free water because it spoils the brew. Horses get sick on fluoride treated water because they drink a large amount re body weight. Water your vegie patch, tie up the few minerals left in the soil, slowly get sick then go down the med. track feeding the mega drug systems on the way and damaging the pineal gland in our heads. What a good idea,I'm 72 and take nothing and so far don't know a doctor but would drink from a puddle or pond before town water.

Old Bob, what makes you say that beer is made with fluoride free water? That's not the information I have.

The following quotes are from the 2006 US National Research Council report on fluoride in drinking water.
p 48/9 "Other groups of people [apart from habitual tea drinkers] who are expected to have exposures higher than those calculated here include infants given fluoride toothpaste before age 1, anyone who uses toothpaste more than twice per day or who swallows excessive amounts of toothpaste, children inappropriately given fluoride supplements in a fluoridated area, children in an area with high fluoride concentrations in soil, and children with pica who consume large amounts of soil."
p 52 Table 2-12 Total estimated (average) chronic inorganic fluoride exposure (mg/kg/day) from all sources for non-nursing infants below the age of one year is 0.100 for a modeled water intake, and 0.115 for the EPA default water intake, with a fluoride concentration in drinking water of 1 mg/L (i.e. 1 ppm).
p 69 Table 2-18 lists a value of 0.10 mg/kg/day as a "Tolerable upper intake" for ages 0-8.

News from Portland, Oregon where they fighting against the hazardous waste pollution of their water supplies (and hence food chain). These people have united and said we don't want potent neurotoxins in our water supplies:-

Here is a document with some of the latest info on the fight against fluoridation/pollution from Portland, oregon:-

Link to Portland, Oregon No to Fluoridation Argument 26-151_a01-a41 (85 pages)

http://web.multco.us/sites/default/files/elections/documents/26-151_a01-a41.pdf

And I say again, anyone who believes it is ok and safe and effective to consume (eat, drink & bathe in) dangerously corrosive hazardous waste pollutants fluorosilicic acid/silicofluorides and co-contaminants of lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, etc., and also added to that toxic, neurotoxic and carcinogenic mix is aluminium sulphate ............is not thinking rationally. Think of the cumulative effects over months, years, decades. We have now alzheimer's disease crisis, kidney disease crisis, dental crisis,mental health crisis, chronic diseases... and for what? because dentists say it is safe and effective - no way is it safe or effective. Get rid of it now for all our sakes. Kidney disease so bad now, people being offered by Fed. Health Minister to be paid (living donors) to donate a kidney and part of their liver. Prevent any potential harm to anyone else by invoking the Precautionary Principle, First Do No Harm, the Health and Safety of the population comes above all else.

The only answer EVER was to provide access to affordable dental health care services for all the population, not the disposal of hazardous waste pollutants and co-contaminants of lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, etc.,  from phosphate fertiliser industries  (and aluminium smelting industries) (known as water fluoridation, plus aluminium sulphate)  into our drinking water supplies and hence also contaminating our food chain and using the populations' kidneys as toxic waste disposal/filtration units. 

Never ceases to amaze how zealots clump around conspiracy theories like platelets around a cut and manage to collectively exclude any possibility of rationality penetrating their fevered imaginings. I suppose it's a form of protective response - for some people reason is obviously dangerous to their mental health, so go to it.

I'll go get a glass of fluoridated water and sit back to watch the show.

It never ceases to bring the pro-fluoridation mob into disgrace when they are the ones bringing up the rot of 'conspiracy theories' and they insult, name call and defame any of the informed and aware people who have researched extensively and can shown that water fluoridation (pollution) is not safe and not effective.

A good summary of this sort tinfoil-hattery can be found at http://www.skepdic.com/fluoridation.

This "not safe" and "ineffective" mantra we keep hearing is reminiscent of anti-vaccers and the like.

Pathological contrarianism like this just seems to be some sort of a shortcut to feeling intelligent.

I'll say it again to those name callers who think they can spruik that water fluoridation is safe and effective:-
NO SAFETY DATA EXISTS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD

http://dianabuckland.webs.com/nosafetydatafl.htm

How could it? we were not meant to consume in everything we eat, drink and bathe in S6,S7 Corrosive 8 hazardous waste pollutants fluorosilicic acid/silicofluorides and co-contaminants of lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium etc. (sourced from phosphate mining & aluminium smelting) & added also is aluminium sulphate. The dental crisis in USA & Australia after up to 67 and up to 59 years respectively of water fluoridation/pollution prove it's an absolute shocking fraud and failure.

The only answer EVER was to provide access to affordable dental health care services for all the population, not the disposal of hazardous waste pollutants and co-contaminants into our drinking water supplies and hence also the contamination of our food chain and using the populations' kidneys as hazardous waste disposal/filtration units.  Stop this chronic poisoning of the population, pets and environment immediately.

This is absolutely obscene that The Fluoridation Fraud has been allowed to continue by successive State and Federal Governments. End the Fluoridation Fraud/Fluoridation Dictatorship now and ban water fluoridation urgently and  irrevocably for all time.

I'm so glad that no conspiracy theories are being promoted.

Glug, glug, glug...

The ADA asked for $200,000 and received $220,000 from Bligh’s Health Minister, Stephen Robertson to promote ‘fluoridation’ and their colleagues at the AMA sent a letter to Dr. Jeannette young, Chief Health Officer Queensland Health extract from FOI :-

“The AMA believes the 'strategic approach' referred to in your letter must be for Government to mandate water fluoridation throughout the State. The approach to encourage individual councils to adopt fluoridation of their own volition has failed.”

Some view this allegedly, as tantamount to ‘conspiring’ to ‘mandate’ ‘water fluoridation’ and you must take action to ban ‘water fluoridation/pollution’ urgently, irrevocably and for all time.

These letters from ADA and AMA form part of this Report and can be accessed on the link hereunder - referred to page 88/89.
http://fluorideinformationaustralia.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/report-water-fluoridation-pollution-must-end-diane-drayton-buckland-independent-researcher-14th-january-2013.pdf

Antiseptic and AJ Philips, as usual it's all hot air from your side of the argument, with no evidence. For anyone who is interested in finding out more, some good sources of information are the Fluoride Action Network website, Declan Waugh's work, the 2006 US National Research Council report on fluoride in drinking water, the journal Fluoride, and the books The Case Against Fluoride and The Fluoride Deception. If you are opposed to fluoridation and on Facebook, please
Like at least one of the Fluoride Free pages.

Dear Tony, it's hard to get info to someone like you but I am lucky to be informed on things you wouldn't under stand. I can and do dowse water sites with something we are all capable of if we are not damaged by fluoride. I know this sounds like a smart ar--. comment but it is true.We are a bit more than a naked ape and if you can use all we are gifted with the world view opens up. I have just touched the edge of it and this over the top control really upset me, can't you see they are trying to poison us to keep us as slaves? O yes you will call me a "crazy" but I care not.When you can expand your mind out to see hundreds of meters underground wouldn't you want to keep that ability? or would you rather soak your mind in fluoride and laugh at those that can? Think hard before you answer this. Cheers Old Bob

.

I'm not sure if fluoride has anything to do with your wondrous abilities, Bob. Have you tried a double-blind test? You know, try filling the bong with unfluoridated water one day and fluoridated the next? I reckon you'll be surprised at how little difference there is.

Very funny Tony, just what I expected. Can't get through to you because they have got you thinking the way they want. Sorry this has happened but I can't help. Doesn't matter if you keep on the fluoride, enjoy Cheers bob

Colgate Advice on their toothpaste."Children under 6yrs of age should have adult supervision and have only a pea sized amount.DO NOT SWALLOW.Children should spit and thoroughly rinse after brushing."

The amount of Sodium Flouride is 0.22% or 2 flouride molecules for each 1000 tooth paste molecules.

If children should not injest them,then why is sodium flouride in our water supply?

Hi all, I'm a lazy parent that couldn't be bothered teaching my children hygiene, or how to use a tooth brush combined with toothpaste they can spit out.

I'd like to thank my loving comrade socialist fabian government for acting where I fall short with my own family -- please be their parent for me, dear socialist nanny state government.

Junior has a full nappy, and we could use you're help. (I'm too busy being unreasonable with my PS3)

I also willingly commend them with my tax / rate money to look into digestible sun screen via drinking water as well.

With all the talk of carbon tax, we get depressed as we're almost out of our home because of the rate hikes on everything.

The cherry on the cake would be anti-dependents in out G-d given drinking water as well. Please make our dream, real.

Love live the nanny state, long live Stalin.

Arjay, it might surprise you to learn that toothpaste contains other chemicals as well as fluoride. In fact, it consists of nothing but chemicals!

I recommend immediate prophylactic extraction of all teeth so that you don't have to risk using it at all.

Anticeptic,the point is that there are far safer alternatives like calcium flouride but our Govts listen to the corporate liars since they have sold off their means of money creation,ie Govt Banks.

Corporatisation of our Govts = a total loss of sovereignity.

>>O yes you will call me a "crazy" but I care not.When you can expand your mind out to see hundreds of meters underground wouldn't you want to keep that ability? or would you rather soak your mind in fluoride and laugh at those that can?<<

How can I possibly top that XD

Dangermouse if that isn't enough to convince you that flouride-phobia is fruit-loopery then all the toxicological studies in the world won't shift you from your entrenched position. I will continue to believe the paid professionals whose job it is to know about this stuff - the toxicologists, medical scientists and so forth - and not the overly-imaginative paranoids with too much free time, an internet connection and an amateur interest in the subject.

I think you're right Antiseptic: best just to give them enough rope and then enjoy the public hanging.

Cheers,

Tony

Here we are sliding away from the subject into a "who knows best". I would be very happy with free sodium fluoride pills for the sheep and leave the forced med.out of our water. The cost to the public purse would be less than a Xmas party. Facts are s.fluoride = poison.Now we all know forums can be fun and many will just bluster for the hell of it, but this is a sad situation watching the IQ fade and teeth in kids get worse. Proven in Tasmania look it up. 50+ years of S.F. and they have the worst teeth in the nation. Now a truth, all you pro fluoride people are just bullies pushing twisted science while big waste producers laugh and use you while they bank the profit. The more you have the smaller your world becomes till hu-mans are nothing more than self replicating robotic slaves. PS I'm not perfect either(but close) Cheers Old Bob

>>Facts are s.fluoride = poison<<

>>All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.<<
- Paracelsus (1493-1541)

Paracelsus figured this one out 500 years ago. What's taking you flouride-phobics so long?

As it so happens all the halides of sodium are poisonous. When was the last time you ate NaCl?

>>50+ years of S.F. and they have the worst teeth in the nation.<<

I think it's interesting to note how Bob summarises sodium flouride - S.F. instead of the more conventional NaF. That tells me straight away that he has no background in chemistry - a chemist would never use S when he means Na because S means Sulfur not Sodium. Trying to do toxicology when you don't understand chemistry is going to be tricky - like trying to do calculus without learning algebra first. And yet for some reason I'm supposed to takes Bob's insane rantings as seriously as the advice of people who are qualified to dispense it? Give me a break.

Cheers,

Tony

I have not yet seen any article in any scientific publication that indicates that fluoridation of water is detrimental to ones health.

"The Humboldt- Del Norte Medical Society Executive Committee has reaffirmed its position in support of water fluoridation as a safe and effective measure. Many other scientifically valid organizations also recognize the importance of water fluoridation, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, American Dental Association, World Health Organization, and American Academy of Pediatrics.

Locally, the following groups have taken a stance in support of community water fluoridation:
California Conservation Corps
Humboldt Child Care Council
Humboldt Del Norte Dental Society
Open Door Health Centers
Six Rivers Dental Hygiene Component
Northcoast Children's Services"

So unless all these organisations are purely there to destroy our children, I will take their advice over some shrill and ill informed activists.

Old Bob, you are being disingenuous in linking fluoride to poor oral health in Tasmania. Tasmania's poor health status (including oral health) has been attributed to the relatively low socio-economic status of the Tasmanian population as a whole.

I love this thread.

I've read the whole lot and found not a whisper about sugar food companies like CSR, Coke etc. and their involvement in causing cavities.

Lets be honest, our sweet western junk food diet has wrecked the mouths of many natives in the pacific region.

I hope people remain asleep to sugar corporations getting away sweet toothed. I'd hate for fluoride to be placed into the actual cavity causing products eaten and drunk by the children we supposedly care so much about.

If we really did care about the children, we would put fluoride in the actual causes' of decay, wouldn't we? No, stick it onto something children hardy ever go near.

We owe Chine $250+ billion. Oi, Julia, help pay off the communist debt we all loving love so much, and get an extra shipment of China's industrial acid waste they themselves don't use in their drinking water.

It will be wonderful having that loving mass acid medication included into Mars and Snickers bars. Every bottle of Coke will have that loving Stalin socialist medication in it as well.

New slogan: 'Throw away that toothpaste - brush with Coke'

Ow this will be great - we'll have wonderful teeth (and brittle bones and lower I.Q's), while helping pay off the national debt at the same time.

Smile Australia.

Report Water Fluoridation Pollution Must End > Download Report:
http://fluorideinformationaustralia.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/report-water-fluoridation-pollution-must-end-diane-drayton-buckland-independent-researcher-14th-january-2013.pdf

Pages 147 -see University of Sydney Ministry of Health Shanti Sivaneswaran - also 148 See in red An Australian Example of Fluoridation Dictatorship - Sydney University prepared by The Australian Fluoridation News - January-March, 2011 - PAGES 5 & 6 very important - you can download the form by clicking on Fluoridation Dictatorship. & the relationship WHO, British Fluoridation Society & School of Public Health & School of Clinical Dentistry pages 149 & 150. Page 151 Brian Martin`s massive corruption, collusion & conflict of interest. Page 152 showing Colgate university of Adelaide.
Page 152 & 153 University of Melbourne funding in 2009 $31.6M - fluoride polluted since 1977 saturation rate 90% Victoria -
note: page 210 The Girl Against Fluoride Ireland
Also shocking Conflicts of Interests Fluoride Promoters, WHO, BFS.
Also note from pages 113 - I make some mention of the dental crisis despite decades of fluoridation particularly the high % saturation; page 116 Kentucky 100% fluoridated - dental crisis.

An Australian Example of Fluoridation Dictatorship
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~fluoride/2011/AFN_2011N1_JanMar_AquaPura.pdf#page=5

Fluoridegate  - The Film
http://youtu.be/zpw5fGt4UvI       

Gee, you got me Tony. I only have a degree in life. clever people humble us country hicks. I retired at 45 so have had 26 years to work things out and have fun. Your type always attack the messenger when you are unable to prove your point. This was fun so will leave you and your ilk sucking up S. fluoride. I have a board meeting to attend so "over and out" Old Bob

Tony Lavis, true to type, you really are a moron. As far as fluoridation is concerned, what difference would it make if what Old Bob is saying is true or not? I have a science education, and I've read quite a lot of the scientific literature relevant to the subject. I also know that fluoridation is not safe from my own experience of skeletal fluorosis and fluoride sensitivity. There are a few opponents of fluoridation who are much further out there than Old Bob, but so what? It makes absolutely no difference to the truth. You mention toxicologists, and there are highly qualified toxicologists who oppose fluoridation. So far I haven't come across a single toxicologist who actively supports fluoridation. The promoters are almost invariably politicians and deluded, or perhaps corrupt, dentists.

It's funny how you lot have the gall to say that fluoridation opponents don't understand dose, when you can't see the problem with dosing everyone indiscriminately and randomly through water supplies, and almost invariably confuse concentration and dose. If the fluoride dose which people in fluoridated areas receive is so unquestionably unproblematic, why was an official recommendation made in the US in 2011 to reduce the maximum nominal fluoride concentration for artificially fluoridated water from 1.2 ppm to 0.7 ppm? And yes, I am aware that fluoride and chloride are both halides, but one important difference is that fluoride accumulates in calcium-rich tissues, whereas chloride does not.

Shadow Minister, if you haven't "seen any article and in any scientific publication that indicates the fluoridation of water is detrimental to ones [sic] health" it's because you are either incompetent, or haven't bothered to look. Considering your failure to distinguish between scientific evidence and political endorsements, it may well be the former.

Candide, you are being disingenuous, because one of the main reasons, if not the primary reason, used to justify fluoridation is that it benefits socio-economically disadvantaged children. Also, the "research" which supposedly shows benefit from fluoridation cherry picks the data, and never properly controls for confounding factors, to mention just a couple of problems.

1. http://cof-cof.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Choi-et-al-Developmental-Fluoride-Neurotoxicity-A-Systematic-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-Environmental-Health-Perspectives-20-Jul-2012.pdf
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Environmental Health Perspectives in 2012.
Developmental Fluoride Neurotoxicity: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
"As noted by the NRC committee (NRC 2006), assessments of fluoride safety have relied on incomplete information on potential risks."
"The results suggest that fluoride may be a developmental neurotoxicant that affects brain development at exposures much below those that can cause toxicity in adults"
"potential developmental neurotoxicity of fluoride should be a high research priority"

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21237562
Here's an article from the peer reviewed Journal of Hazardous Materials in 2011.
The relationships between low levels of urine fluoride on children's intelligence, dental fluorosis in endemic fluorosis areas in Hulunbuir, Inner Mongolia, China.
"Mean value of fluoride in drinking water was 1.31±1.05 mg/L (range 0.24-2.84). Urine fluoride was inversely associated with IQ in the multiple linear regression model when children's age as a covariate variable was taken into account (P<0.0001). Each increase in 1 mg/L of urine fluoride associated with 0.59-point decrease in IQ (P=0.0226). Meanwhile, there was a dose-response relationship between urine fluoride and dental fluorosis (P<0.0001). In conclusion, our study suggested that low levels of fluoride exposure in drinking water had negative effects on children's intelligence and dental health and confirmed the dose-response relationships between urine fluoride and IQ scores as well as dental fluorosis."

3. http://fluoridealert.tenintenclients.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/mullenix-1995.pdf
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Neurotoxicology and Teratology in 1995.
Neurotoxicity of Sodium Fluoride in Rats

4. http://208.109.172.241/health/brain/varner-1998.pdf
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Brain Research in 1998.
Chronic administration of aluminium-fluoride or sodium-fluoride to rats in drinking water: alterations in neuronal and cerebrovascular integrity
"chronic administration of AlF3 and NaF in the drinking water of rats resulted in distinct morphological alterations in the brain, including effects on neurons and cerebrovasculature."

5. http://www.fluorideresearch.org/312/files/FJ1998_v31_n2_p059-128.pdf
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Fluoride in 1998.
Fluoride-linked Down Syndrome Births and Their Estimated Occurrence Due to Water Fluoridation
"The number of excess DS births due to water fluoridation is estimated to be several thousand cases annually throughout the world."

6. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v322/n6075/abs/322125a0.html
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Nature in 1986.
The mystery of declining tooth decay

7. http://www.fluoridealert.org/uploads/susheela-2005.pdf
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Fluoride in 2005.
Excess Fluoride Ingestion and Thyroid Hormone Derangements in Children Living in Delhi, India

8. http://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/assets/2012-03/Endocrine%20Reviews%20article.pdf
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Endocrine Reviews in 2012.
Hormones and Endocrine-Disrupting Chemicals: Low-Dose Effects and Nonmonotonic Dose Responses
[Table 3 lists sodium fluoride as a low-dose endocrine disruptor, which inhibits insulin secretion, parathyroid hormone, and thyroid hormone]

9. http://curezone.us/upload/pdf/Fluoride_exposure_in_drinking_water_and_osteosarcoma.pdf
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Cancer Causes & Control in 2006.
Age-specific fluoride exposure in drinking water and osteosarcoma (United States).

10. http://files.meetup.com/1755143/Association_of_vascular_fluoride_uptake_with%2031.pdf
Here's an article from the peer reviewed journal Nuclear Medicine Communications in 2012.
Association of vascular fluoride uptake with vascular calcification and coronary artery disease

11. http://www.fluorideresearch.org/194/files/FJ1986_v19_n4_p155-208.pdf#page=38
Here's an article from the peer reviewed New Zealand Medical Journal in 1985.
Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI) and Magnesium and Fluoride Intake

June 17, 1999

Phyllis J. Mullenix - Neurotoxicologist
This letter sent to School Health Advisory Committee

By Ms. Mullenix on 17th June, 1999.

My Investigations Of The Neurotoxicity Of Fluoride Started In 1987.

In summary, there are no advantages to water fluoridation today. The risks far exceed the hoped for benefit. Dr. Hodge during the Manhattan Project requested funds from Col.Stafford L. Warren to do animal experimentation to determine central nervous system effects of fluoride (21). He did so because he had clinical evidence that the fluoride component of uranium hexafluoride caused "mental confusion, drowsiness and lassitude" among the workmen. Yet, he never got to do those studies, and because this information was classified, he never discussed his findings with me. Perhaps, however, this explains why he was so intensely interested in my fluoride studies up to the time of his death.

Therefore, in good conscience, I can only discourage the notion of fluoridating water supplies. The evidence against the safety of this public health policy keeps mounting; it is too compelling to ignore. However, proving harm takes a long but predictable path: industry complains, studies are criticized, and scientists are trashed. Do you have the time to wait while your children are at risk? The decision is yours.

Sincerely,
Phyllis J. Mullenix, Ph.D.
Research Associate, Dept. of Psychiatry
Children's Hospital. Boston, MA

This letter sent to School Health Advisory Committee
By Ms. Mullenix on 17th June, 1999.
FULL DOCUMENT: http://sonic.net/kryptox/medicine/mullenix2.htm
JUNE 17, 1999 Phyllis J. Mullenix Neurotoxicologis

ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE - Epidemic - Fluoride/Aluminium - By Doug Cross

In addition to the fluorosilicic acid/silicofluorides (hazardous waste pollutants and co-contaminants of lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, etc., known as 'fluoride') they also add aluminium sulphate
Australia already faces Alzheimer's Disease (& Kidney disease) epidemics - STOP 'WATER POLLUTION/FLUORIDATION' immediately permanently & irrevocably for all time or face the ruin.

Dementia, including Alzheimer's Disease (AD) is fast becoming the greatest public health issue, ever. In the UK the Alzheimer's Society recently stated that one in three persons over the age of 65 will die from AD - and it's increasing so fast that in thirty years time the prevalence is expected to treble (do the maths and shiver!). Your children will live with fluorosis, but they will die with dementia.

Since the evidence that environmental exposure to ionic aluminium salts, such as the aluminium sulphate used in water treatment, is a leading cause of AD. There is a 50% and 150% increase in AD in areas where the water contains only half the permitted maximum of 0.2ppm. Fluoride in water - increases the speed at which it is absorbed and transferred to the brain.

Adding Fluoride To Drinking Water Is Literally Insane.

Fluoridation is bad on its own, but in the presence of aluminium its effects are becoming catastrophic as our 'aluminium clocks' tick away the countdown to Alzheimer's - fluoride speeds up that lethal clock..

By Doug Cross UKCAF http://ukcaf.org/&#8232;
CV http://www.intota.com/expert-consultant.asp?bioID=778541&perID=728108

Oh goody, the show's still on.

Dr. Paul Connett Explains 'The Case Against Fluoride'

http://www.fluorideaustralia.org/articleView.asp?Article=52

My wife was just going through the antic at my mother home and found a document I don't ever remember seeing.

It looks official - from the hospital where I was born, this document, (crushed up tree with oil and dye on it) was created shortly after my birth.

Seems that while I was 10 minutes old, someone looked at me, and I replied to them using body languages to a question.

The question was: 'For the rest of your life baby Davo; you don't belong to you. For the rest of your life, you belong to the Crown. For the rest of your life baby Davo, you a "subject" of the Crown, will forced vaccinations, acid in your drinking water, and pay a tax a guy in the future called John Howard will call "rates". Schools will teach you man is created equally, but this is false. Jes got it wrong. the Bible is false. Standing Order 50 is a hoax. We the Elite are above you, but below G-d. We are the Crown. We are the chosen. you be as well are chosen, but by us for minor roles such as "groom of the stool".(Royal butt wiper. Welcome to the plow sharing plantation our dear baby Davo. Don't forget to pay your taxes, carbon as well. It part goes towards medication in your water to keep you stupid'.

Now, after reading his a few times, I think it's a good idea to be subservient from day on to old turds on the other side of the planet that write books (like Prince Philip - "If I were an animal") about making the world better for my masters.

Please force medicate me with genetically modified mosquitoes against my will. Whoops, Bill Gates is already doing that to African.

It's all loving. Submit to those that own our bodies.
Submit to the new world order.

>>Oh goody, the show's still on.<<

Yep. They're still thrashing about on the end of their ropes. Isn't life grand? :)

Cheers,

Tony

@Tony,Suseonline & Antiseptic. It is sad that people who are not winning or can offer no scientific data should revert to namecalling. I suffer from chemical toxicity. Cannot take many medications, cannot drink the water. Sure say to me go get a filter. Not easy, very expensive, how do you think the people who are the ones supposedly targeted for this "safe and effective" medication avoid it if they cannot tolerate it, they cannot afford it.

Filters are expensive, the only one which will take out 98% fluoride is a R.O. system, it takes 5 litres to make 1 litre of "F" free drinking water. How can my friend with the child who has cancer afford this the water bill becomes prohibitive. Then there is another friend who has gastric attacks, then another whose kidneys have become impaired. I can name 100's of people I know of who suffer. We have not been fluoridated for very long, the people I mention came to this city to avoid it and now have it forced on them

I buy in my drinking,cooking water cannot afford whole house filter, shower in this water,little as possible; have sponge baths with bought water. Do you know why? Have you thought about anyone else? If it is only about teeth, how can Dentists medicate us? If it is only about teeth, save the money from buying in this pollutant; create federal Denticare Scheme similar to Medicare and everyone is a winner. I have eczema,psoriasis, burning rashes of my skin, my eyes are affected; also consider that I have to wash my clothes in this poison and they become toxic as well. So too our food chain. Did you know it is illegal to dump into the ocean? It becomes an S9 marine pollutant. SO TO THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE SO SELFISH THAT YOU ONLY CONSIDER YOURSELVES. I am 70 years of age, we have been fluoridated for 3 years, I have all my own "pearly whites" so yes perhaps it is a matter of don't drink coke, watch the sugar content, clean your teeth regularly. Perhaps some dental hygiene education for those unfortunates who are the target of this heinous act would not go astray. TO Tony,Suesonline& Antiseptic, if you cannot say something that is constructively intelligent, why bother saying anything at all? "SAFE AND EFFECTIVE" - HOW COME I CANNOT TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THOSE WHO MAY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MY HEALTH ISSUES? ALSO- WHERE CAN WE OBTAIN DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES OF SIDE EFFECTS TO THOSE AFFECTED SINCE "f" WAS INTRODUCED, TO PINPOINT IF IT IS CAUSED BY THE FLUORIDE OR PERHAPS THE CO-CONTAMINANTS
i.e.,arsenic,cadmium,lead, and other trace metals. QUIT maintained smoking causes cancer? Seek out why? you may be surprised to find the same ingredients are in the FSA in your water!

I HAVE NOT RUBBISHED YOU, THEREFORE I DO NOT EXPECT YOU TO NAME CALL OTHERS. SEEK THE INFORMATION, THEN HAVE SOME SYMPATHY AND/OR EMPATHY FOR THE AFFECTED -PLEASE MANDATE THAT GOVERNMENTS ALLOW TESTING. Call me "conspiracy theorist" you are paying me a compliment, as I will know I am getting close to the TRUTH.
Edit C

Whether or not you believe fluoride is good for you is irrelevant. The point is that we do not have freedom of choice here. I for one choose not to take this medication which according to the Australia Drinking Water standards contains hydrofluorosilicic acid laced with arsenic, cadmium and lead. It has cost my husband and I in excess of $10,000 in rainwater tanks, filters and plumbing into our kitchen and bathroom just to have water uncontaminated by poisons, quite bizarre having to do this in a so-called developed country.

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism 5yrs ago and found it is caused by fluoride. According to Thyroid Australia this affects 6-10% of the population so this is by no means insignificant. Once I started to avoid fluoridated water and all products containing it, my TSH hormone level returned to normal and all the symptoms I had of classic fluoride poisoning which were not diagnosed as such - disappeared.

I can't eat anything made or manufactured using fluoridated water which is almost everything in Australia and I avoid physical contact with fluoridated water.

There are 9 councils in QLD who have opted to discontinue this practice including Cairns and Fraser Island so these are the places we can go for holidays in addition to Europe, Vancouver, Japan, China etc which have long since stopped mass medicating their populations.

I have no objections to anyone who believes fluoride is good for you, by all means you should have the right to take as much of it as you like but not one of us should tolerate a gov. that forces medication on anyone, especially when you have no idea how much you have ingested over time. Living in Melbourne but having come from NZ I have had roughly 35yrs exposure to it with unknown dosages.

It is no surprise to me that many people in Australia become sick much younger now, thyroid disorders, kidney diseases, chronic fatigue and hormonal cancers. According to our vet, even for our pets one of the common issues as they get older are thyroid issues.

From 1982 Former NIH (National Inst. of Health) scientist opposed to fluoride

Statement by James B. Patrick, Ph.D. at the Joint Congressional Committee on Health & Appropriations Against the Inclusion of Fluoridation in the Preventive Health & Health Services Block Grant, Held August 4, 1982.
Dr. Patrick earned his B.S. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology & his M.A. & Ph.D. from Harvard University majoring in chemistry. His experience as Antibiotics Research Scientist was with the National Institute of Health and Lederle Laboratories.
Dr. Patrick is Senior Professor & Chairman of the Department of Chemistry, Mary Baldwin College, Stauton, Virginia, 1967 to date. He is author of 28 technical papers & holder of 7 U.S,. patents.
 
"A number of scholarly volumes & numerous technical articles have been written showing the biochemical & toxicological hazards of deliberately exposing the population to continuous dosages of such a potent chronic toxin as fluoride. I cannot summarize them in the time of space at my disposal here, but will confine myself to sketching three points.......
For these three reasons, as well as for a number of others that I have not attempted to cover here. I strongly advise against the legislature of this Commonwealth having anything to do with fluoridation. It is a scientific disgrace that a well organized lobby of the American Dental Association ever managed to stampede American legislators into ignoring the highly technical but very cogent objection to fluoridations."
Full Document: http://www.nofluoride.com/eight.cfm

Medical Toxico-Pathologist - Dr. Vyvyan Howard, President of the International Society of Doctors for the Environment, explains his concerns about water fluoridation. Dr. Howard is a medical toxico-pathologist who specializes in the impact of toxins on fetal & infant health. In this video, Dr. Howard discusses his concerns about fluoride's impact on infant health.
Video source: http://www.viddler.com/explore/Sx55s/videos/4/
To learn more, see: http://fluoridealert.org

Poisoned Babies - Metropolitan Water District public hearing where Dr Kathleen Thiessen & Dr David Kennedy DDS explain how many people will be injured by their decision to add hydrofluorosilicic acid to the drinking water of 18 million people in Southern California.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DTQlflYHn

[Deleted for abuse.]

Diane,

Citing persons and publications from the fringe does not take away from the reality that fluoridation of water provides far greater benefits than the anecdotal "problems" that arise. The increased levels of Alzheimer's disease has more to do with the rapidly increasing numbers of people surviving into old age than a "poison" that has enabled them to reach it.

I would guess that the same fringe groups that oppose fluoridation oppose vaccination.

Actually Emily McAuliffe has written a thoughtful critique of the problems surrounding enforced public health measures. Those fervent supporters of fluoridation who rushed in to attack her do no service to science, nor to informed debate.
Both science and public health progress through informed debate and intelligent, critical discussion - even of 'sacred cows' like water fluoridation.
One of the best scientific reviews of fluoridation was published in the British Medical Journal in 2007. The authors, leading experts in public health, stated in their introduction:
"We are concerned that the polarised
debates and the way that evidence is harnessed,
and uncertainties glossed over, make it hard for the
public and professionals to participate in consultations
on an informed basis. Here, we highlight problems
that should be confronted in such consultations and
emphasise the considerable uncertainties in the
evidence."
Reference:
Cheng, Chalmers & Sheldon (2007)
BMJ, 6th October 2007
Vol 335, pp 699-702
[The authors proceeded to show that there are great weaknesses in the evidence about both safety and effectivenss of water fluoridation. Several posters on this forum would have you believe that there is no argument, and that McAuliffe is wrong in suggesting there is doubt. She is actually on more firm ground than they realize]

>>Both science and public health progress through informed debate and intelligent, critical discussion<<

A fair point and well made. But does this sort of tripe really represent informed debate and intelligent discussion?

>>Then there is another friend who has gastric attacks, then another whose kidneys have become impaired. I can name 100's of people I know of who suffer.<<

I don't know where you come from Dr. Knowalittle. I hail from the Hunter valley, and in the Hunter we believe that evidence is NOT the plural of anecdote. The plural of anecdote is anecdotes and while they make for interesting stories they don't amount to scientific evidence.

>>[Deleted for abuse.]<<

Really dangermouse? You couldn't do any better than [Deleted for abuse]? Shooting fish in a barrel would provide better sport. Try again, next time with feeling.

>>all the symptoms I had of classic fluoride poisoning which were not diagnosed as such - disappeared.<<

Hmm... symptoms that are 'not diagnosed as such' (i.e. not diagnosed by a doctor) but are symptoms of 'classic flouride poisoning' (i.e. self-diagnosed off some dodgy internet site). As soon as the patient makes the CONSCIOUS EFFORT to
>>avoid fluoridated water and all products containing it<<
the symptoms disappear EVEN IF the patient is still regularly consuming flouride, which - let's face it - is essentially impossible to eliminate from your diet. Even reverse osmosis water contains trace elements...

Sounds familiar. I would bet my last dollar that the symptoms attested to - along with most of the other sob stories we've heard - amount to nothing more than a nocebo effect.

TBC

continued

We've all heard of the placebo effect - if you really believe that the pills you're taking will do you good then they generally do you good even if they contain an inert chemical like sugar - the brain does the rest of the work for you. It works in reverse too - if someone really believes that the water they are drinking is poisonous it might cause them harm even though it is an inert chemical - the brain does the rest of the work for them. This is the nocebo effect.

When testing the efficacy of drugs they use double-blind controlled trials to ensure an accurate comparison. The patients don't know if they get real thing or a placebo and the drug is only approved if it is more effective than the placebo alone.

We should test for nocebo effects in the same way - a double-blind controlled study where nobody knows if they're drinking nice fresh tap juice or flouride-free water. If the flouridated water produces more 'poisoning' than the tap water alone then there is a cause for concern. The fear - misplaced or not - surrounding floridated water can only serve to confound results in this type of study, and the best way to avoid that fear is through double-blind testing.

Which no flouride-phobic will ever submit to for fear of receiving the tap water instead of the non-flouridated water.

And thus we are left up the proverbial creek without a paddle: without test subjects you can't run tests, without tests you have no data, and without data you can't form sound conclusions or even sound premises and the argument - instead of being based on reason - becomes unbased on emotion and rhetoric and I get to enjoy another public hanging.

Cheers,

Tony

@Tony. Ok you line up the medical personnel to do a double blind study and we will find you the people, "victims" of potential fluoride poisoning to be tested. You will find there is no such study available to any of us. Don't you think we have tried?

My information is only anecdotal because I am speaking about other persons and the "privacy act" does not allow me to name them. Do you know there are some regular doctors out there who have integrity and guts and have signed affidavits to the effect that we should not be mass medicated with a substance which is cumulative and will breakdown our bodies systemically. Some sooner than others, particularly babies and children,the frail & elderly. Tony are you a medico or just another person who wants to belittle people who are genuinely becoming ill and their doctors are unable to diagnose the problem? You are obviously one of the lucky people who do not suffer chemical toxicity problems; maybe down the track you will change your mind. Our own amazing late great Edward (Weary) Dunlop opposed fluoridation suggesting in fit people it can take up to 20 years to show effects. Is it the asbestos; thalidomide; smoking; of tomorrow?

Is there a chance of an alternative water source for you, chemifree...?

Old Bob would be conscious and considerate of your situation (see p.8) and might offer to dowse a natural source of water on your property.

I have lived in a rural area and have been drinking unfluoridated rainwater from tanks for over thirty years. Before that, I lived in other countries without fluoridated water. I am over sixty and still have my own teeth with just a few fillings. My daughter who grew up with rainwater from tanks also has all her own teeth and has had only one filling so far. She is over thirty.

What needs to be taught is dental hygiene in combination with a low sugar diet. Simple and no need for mass medication.

Fluoridation is an absolute Fraud.

After decades of widespread fluoridation Australia wide in dental crisis - headlines such as DENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM IN DECAY - Dr Deborah Cole is chief executive officer of Dental Health Services Victoria/ REPORT WARNS $10B NEEDED TO FIX DENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM February 28, 2012 & many more.

Reputations & credibility will suffer if any of you continue with this chronic poisoning of the population & environment with these hazardous waste pollutants known as 'water fluoridation'. Many ask why are Dentists & their interests (not to mention Corporate sponsored Dental Schools at Universities) fighting to the death to force to keep &/or add these dangerously corrosive hazardous waste pollutants in our water supplies ( & hence food chain) if it is supposed to be so effective & reduce caries by 60% - because it is not effective & not safe - these pollutants fluorosilicic acid, hexafluorosilicate being used in many industries such as glass etching, wood preservative, sterilization, electroplating, acidizing, rust removal in textile field, lead refining, tanneries, fluorosilicate salt, in veterinary fields to combat insect infestation. Now how any of you could be so gullible, complacent or dare I say uncaring that you ignore this & continue to put the population in Harm's Way, you will live to regret such a shocking & negligent decision. We must all take action for the health & safety of our population & call an immediate & irrevocable ban.

WATER FLUORIDATION AS MASS MEDICATION
Douglas Cross CSci. CBiol. FSB

7th April, 2013

Conclusions
Fluoridated water therefore is a medicine, it is supplied with the intent to medicate entire communities, and it does constitute mass medication, even if few - or even no - members of those communities are actually in need of the intervention, or are capable of benefiting from it.

Since fluoridated water is a medicinal water, it is not ‘water intended for human consumption’, and the water quality criteria applied to drinking water do not apply to fluoridated water, leaving the public legally unprotected against non-compliance with any other parametric water quality standard.

And since its supply, in the absence of a relevant licence, to individuals who do not consent to what is effectively State-imposed coercion or recruitment, it is in violation of the fundamental right of individuals to control their physical autonomy, this form of mass medication incompatible with the fundamental principles of human rights legislation and in gross breach of medical ethics.

© Douglas Cross, Ulverston, Cumbria, UK

Full document: > http://www.xproexperts.co.uk/expertarticles/3422-1365362130_Water%20Fluoridation%20as%20Mass%20Medication.pd

apologies on my previous posting the end of the url was missing:-

WATER FLUORIDATION AS MASS MEDICATION
Douglas Cross CSci. CBiol. FSB

7th April, 2013

Conclusions
Fluoridated water therefore is a medicine, it is supplied with the intent to medicate entire communities, and it does constitute mass medication, even if few - or even no - members of those communities are actually in need of the intervention, or are capable of benefiting from it.

Since fluoridated water is a medicinal water, it is not ‘water intended for human consumption’, and the water quality criteria applied to drinking water do not apply to fluoridated water, leaving the public legally unprotected against non-compliance with any other parametric water quality standard.

And since its supply, in the absence of a relevant licence, to individuals who do not consent to what is effectively State-imposed coercion or recruitment, it is in violation of the fundamental right of individuals to control their physical autonomy, this form of mass medication incompatible with the fundamental principles of human rights legislation and in gross breach of medical ethics.

© Douglas Cross, Ulverston, Cumbria, UK

Full document: > http://www.xproexperts.co.uk/expertarticles/3422-1365362130_Water%20Fluoridation%20as%20Mass%20Medication.pdf

Diane,

Having looked at the available information, I feel that the argument against fluoridation is pure quackery. To quote:

"To determine precisely what amount of fluoride in the water would prevent decay without causing staining. Dr. H. Trendley Dean traced the dental status of 7,000 children who drank naturally fluoridated water in 21 cities in four states. In 1943, he reported that the ideal amount of fluoride was one part per million parts of water. This concentration was demonstrated to result in healthy, attractive teeth that had one-third as many cavities as might otherwise be expected—and no staining.

The next step was to determine whether water engineering could copy nature's amazing dental health benefit. At several test sites, the fluoride concentration of the public water supply was adjusted to one part per million.

One such test was conducted in Newburgh and Kingston, New York. First, the children in both cities were examined by dentists and physicians; then fluoride was added to Newburgh's water supply. After ten years, the children of Newburgh had 58% fewer decayed teeth than those of nonfluoridated Kingston. The greatest benefits were obtained by children who had drunk the fluoridated water since birth. Other studies showed that teeth made stronger by fluoride during childhood would remain permanently resistant to decay. As the evidence supporting fluoridation accrued, thousands of communities acted to obtain its benefits.

Fluoridation opponents like to cite CDC statistics showing that the incidence of fluorosis among adolescents aged 12-15 rose from 22.6% in 1986-87 to 40.7% in 1999-2004. Taken by itself, that statement is factual but misleading. Questionable, very mild, and mild fluorosis and most cases of moderate fluorosis are barely visible and pose no problem whatsoever. In addition, it's been shown that teeth with fluorosis are more resistant to decay than teeth without fluorosis. The teeth may appear whiter than otherwise, but they are neither unattractive nor structurally damaged. Moreover, many people think that extra whiteness make the teeth more attractive. Severe fluorosis that adversely affects both appearance and function is close to zero among people who drink water that is optimally fluoridated."

Continued:

"Fluoridation opponents like to cite CDC statistics showing that the incidence of fluorosis among adolescents aged 12-15 rose from 22.6% in 1986-87 to 40.7% in 1999-2004. Taken by itself, that statement is factual but misleading. Questionable, very mild, and mild fluorosis and most cases of moderate fluorosis are barely visible and pose no problem whatsoever. In addition, it's been shown that teeth with fluorosis are more resistant to decay than teeth without fluorosis. The teeth may appear whiter than otherwise, but they are neither unattractive nor structurally damaged. Moreover, many people think that extra whiteness make the teeth more attractive. Severe fluorosis that adversely affects both appearance and function is close to zero among people who drink water that is optimally fluoridated.

In recent years, fluoridation has been reducing the incidence of cavities 20% to 40% in children and 15% to 35% in adults. The reduction is less than it used to be, probably due to improved dental hygiene and widespread use of fluoride toothpaste. Currently, more than 200 million Americans live in fluoridated communities. But many others receive public water supplies that are not fluoridated—thanks largely to the efforts of poisonmongers.

The basic technique is the big lie. It is simple to use, yet surprisingly effective. It consists of claiming that fluoridation causes cancer, heart and kidney disease, and other serious ailments that people fear. The fact that there is no supporting evidence for such claims does not matter. The trick is to keep repeating them—because if something is said often enough, people tend to think there must be some truth to it.

A variation is the laundry list. List enough "evils," and even if proponents can reply to some of them, they will never be able to cover the entire list. This technique is most effective in debates, letters to the editor, and television news reports. Another variation is the simple statement that fluoridation doesn't work. Although recent studies show less difference than there used to be, the Public Health Service estimates that every dollar spent for community fluoridation saves about fifty dollars in dental bills."

The continuing fraud and conflicts of interests in water fluoridation/pollution dictatorship is obscene:

Fluoridation & The Web Of Deceit. - Conflicts of Interests

The Girl Against Fluoride
Independent Researcher and Activist - Ireland –

Professor Denis O Mullane is Vice Chairperson of the Executive Committee of the Irish Expert Body of fluorides & health.

Although he calls himself "an independent objective research worker in the field of Dental Public Health", this man has promoted water fluoridation around the world for many years. He has pushed water fluoridation in South Africa along with Seamus Hickey.

Despite Mr Mullane's pro fluoride bias, in 2002 Michael Martin gave him a grant estimated at a million to investigate the benefits and risks of water fluoridation.

The British Fluoridation Society includes Denis Mullane in their information leaflets. He is also connected with the British Nutrition Foundation - this was set up in the 1960's by sugar & pharmaceutical companies such as Tate and Lyle ltd, Cadburys, Proctor & Gamble. Denis Mullane's uncle was chief chemist of Irish Sugar Company.

Mr Mullane is part of a group rewriting a document on "Fluorides and Oral Health", for the WHO. This is one of the men who continues to say that water fluoridation is safe & yet the chemicals used in water fluoridation in Ireland were banned for their use as a wood preservative.

~

http://www.hotpress.com/politics/frontlines/Judgement-That-Permitted-Fluoridation-Of-Water-May-Have-Been-Unsound/9708554.html

So all please do tell; when did you willy hand your human body ownership to another human body?

Simplified for the dummies that reply "I'm apart of society"...(that funds foreign invasion killing children)...

7 castaways on a deserted Island.

Which one has the right to force mass medicate 6 others?

Answer: zero.

Only difference with the topic of this thread, is that their are a few more Stalinist demigods on his other island called Australia.

Poor sheep.

15th June 2009 by Doug Cross UKCAF
The appointment of Andy Burnham, MP, Vice-President of the Government-Funded British Fluoridation Society (BFS), as Secretary of State for Health has revealed to the public just how dangerously out of touch the Prime Minister has become with public concerns. The revelation of Mr Burnham's close relationship with the BFS on Tuesday last, apparently undisclosed in the Parliamentary Register of Members' Interests, led to the immediate announcement of his resignation from the BFS.
Learn more > http://www.ukcaf.org/a_conflict_of_interest__andy_burnham_quits_bfs.html
~

The Government-Funded British Fluoridation Society delighted with the massive expansion of the hazardous waste pollutant poisoning of Queensland and Australia's drinking water supplies:-
Massive expansion of fluoridation in Australia
Coverage rockets from 5% to 92% in Queensland (print friendly version)
95% of New South Wales residents now benefit from fluoridation http://www.bfsweb.org/news/Aus%20and%20NZ/NSW%20coverage%202012.pdf
90% of Victoria's residents receive optimally fluoridated water http://www.bfsweb.org/news/Aus%20and%20NZ/Victoria%20coverage2012.pdf HERE is the SOURCE document link for the PDF’s: http://www.bfsweb.org/news/Aus%20and%20NZ/massive%20expansion%20AUS2012.html
The rest of Australia is also heavily fluoridated/polluted.
'optimally fluoridated' = hazardous waste pollutants fluorosilicic acid/silicofluorides & co-contaminants of lead, mercury, arsenic, cadmium, etc..(& also added is aluminium sulphate).
~
The Corporate control of Dental Teaching/Research Centres at our Universities:-

Anyone who doesn't have a problem with this and the massive conflicts of interests with the pushing/forcing/dictatorship of 'fluoridation' (pollution) you need to think again.

** The Australian Research Centre for Population Oral Health, School of Dentistry, The University of Adelaide. S.A. http://www.arcpoh.adelaide.edu.au/

** Same School of Dentistry, The University of Adelaide, S.A. COLGATE Australian Clinical Dental Research Centre (CACDRC) http://health.adelaide.edu.au/dentistry/colgate/

Many have said - never leave the dingo to mind the sheep. We the sheeple must wake up and demand an end to this chronic poisoning of our population, pets and environment with hazardous waste pollutants (known as water fluoridation) - yes I know, your Government and their interests tells you it is 'natural fluoride' - they lied of course.

Water fluoridation (pollution) is not safe and not effective as the dental crisis Australia wide shows after decades of this 'treatment' on us all by our dictatorial State & Federal Governments.

Building a Database of Developmental Neurotoxicants:

Evidence from Human and Animal Studies

Chemicals with SUBSTANTIAL evidence of developmental neurotoxicity (see Fluoride)

http://www.epa.gov/ncct/toxcast/files/summit/48P%20Mundy%20TDAS.pdf