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The Forum > Article Comments > Creation is a more fundamental notion than nature. > Comments

Creation is a more fundamental notion than nature. : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 19/3/2013

In Christian theology we should be understood as created human in our relationships not our physical environments.

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Dear Peter,

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I see you have written well over a hundred articles on Online Opinion, all more or less on the same theme but, apparently, you do not yet seem persuaded that you have managed to prove your point.

Judging from your perseverance I think most of us here would agree that you have definitely proven that you are convinced that you are right in believing what you believe.

Please rest assured that we all know what your opinion is, Peter. Any further articles you may write will not advance us much further on that score.

If, however, your objective is not so much to express the same opinion for the umpteenth time but rather to prove that you are right in holding that opinion, I understand the imperative necessity to continue your quest for the holy grail.

In that case, I am afraid there is little any of us here can do to help, save, perhaps, to wish you all the best in your eternal enterprise and suggest, as Lewis Carroll did in a similar situation in Alice in Wonderland:

“Be what you would seem to be- or, if you'd like it put more simply- Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”

And, as he wisely pointed out on another occasion:

“You're thinking about something, my dear, and that makes you forget to talk. I can't tell you just now what the moral of that is, but I shall remember it in a bit."

"Perhaps it hasn't one," Alice ventured to remark.

"Tut, tut, child!" said the Duchess. "Everything's got a moral, if only you can find it.”

And, for good measure, if, by chance, you are lost, like Alice, and are seeking direction, always remember those final words of advice of Lewis Carroll:

“If you don't know where you are going any road can take you there”

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 11:24:46 AM
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Commenting to David G runner comments;
"you are either naive or deceived."
I have heard all sorts of comments about theology but the best is probably by Robert Anton Wilson, "The function of Theology? The recitation of the incomprehensible by the unspeakable to pick the pockets of the unthinking."

Runner is always commenting about the evil that befalls a society without religion. I suggest that runner, and others with similar views, read Phil Zuckerman who concluded, after living in and studying the societies of two irreligious Scandinavian countries, concluded;
"The existence of this relatively irreligious society suggests that religious faith - while admittedly widespread - is not natural or innate to the human condition. Nor is religion a necessary ingredient for a healthy, peaceful, prosperous and deeply good society."
Posted by Foyle, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 12:03:09 PM
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Dear Banjo,

<<If, however, your objective is not so much to express the same opinion for the umpteenth time but rather to prove that you are right in holding that opinion>>

Peter is a priest. His business is not to prove anything - his business is to guide his flock.

There are souls among the OLO readers (not necessarily the active commentators) who wish to follow and worship God, but are confused and hindered by the fact that the natural, physical world does not conform to religious teachings. It is for those that Peter writes, it is those whom he comforts, for those he explains that religion and nature/science are two different realms and one need not have anything to do with the other.

While I personally didn't have to face this particular problem to begin with (because I don't believe in the sacredness of the bible, hence in the biblical creation story as supposedly a "fact"), I commend Peter for his deep thinking and excellent shepherdly work.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 12:27:41 PM
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There is a show on the History Channel on Foxtel called Ancient Aliens. It subscribes to pretty much the same view as intelligent design. The premise of the show is that 'aliens' invented the human race. However, the show is pure malarky and its creators probably know that, but it is entertaining and it does show up some fascinating things about ancient cultures. I think the writer of this opinion piece needs to think really deeply about the substance of the view that he is putting forward and where it places him on the spectrum of ideas. We evolved to be intelligent, some more than others, but its not useful if you waste it. We evolved and we are lucky to be the one species on this planet, of all the species that have existed here, who have intelligence and can perceive of our place in the cosmos. That is a rare thing. That is something that came from nature, it is not divine, but that is not to say that it is not wondrous.
Posted by David Jennings, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 12:59:18 PM
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David,
I too think it is wondrous and I do not wish to reduce the theory of evolution in any way. I do not believe in intelligent design and I do not believe that God is "out there". What I do believe is that the Christian tradition is a cultural artefact but nevertheless an artefact that speak the truth about who we are and what is our telos. That is, it enunciates the grain of the universe from a human point of view. Without this culture we are doomed to be reduced to the scientific description of us that is impoverished and limited. Most of the comments on my articles attribute far more to me that I claim. I guess I claim very little but that little has enormous importance to how we understand and live our lives. I am not a theist in the conventional sense. It is interesting that you notice that the TV show raises interesting things even though it is based on fictional. Likewise, much of Scripture.
Posted by Sells, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 2:10:52 PM
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Dear David,

What intelligent being would invest all it can in building sand castles?

This world, along with its stars and galaxies, all elementary particles and all our material and social efforts, is destined to disintegrate.

Our body's genetic make-up has evolved to make us think that we want to, that indeed we must, keep our body alive and multiplying. I don't know whether man is the only species to have the intelligent capacity to break loose of our slavery to the genes, but evidently we have that capacity, though with difficulty, to break the bondage of inert nature while most other species cannot.

What intelligent being would waste that rare capacity to become free of the fatal grip of the elements?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 2:22:28 PM
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