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The Forum > Article Comments > Racist population fears killed by facts > Comments

Racist population fears killed by facts : Comments

By Malcolm King, published 25/1/2013

Migration is not destroying the Australian way of life.

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Yes, and they are well versed in diversionary and time wasting tactics, e.g. when asked to show evidence of direct causal links to their claims, one is to cite a report without any specific references, then at best one may find some headline statistics which suggest some vague correlation......

I suspect the Greens are already well of aware their connections with dubious networks in the USA where all lead to one man, John Tanton. The international eco/green media are wide awake to this and have highlighted such links.

Will be interesting and embarrassing to many the links that already exist, with several politicians, "sustainable population" and front groups, demographers etc. in Australia gaining access to mainstream media, from both sides of politics, being complicit. Known as "green washing" or the "greening of hate", think saw the former expression in Fairfax for the first time in Australian media this week.

Many are unwitting accomplices, many are very coy or secretive, while tactics of fronts and how they deal with the media have all the hallmarks of cults, i.e. inner circles know the full story, while volunteers etc. are innocently drawn in.

End of the day says a lot about the lack of depth and analysis in the Australia media ("medium"?)
Posted by Andras Smith, Saturday, 2 February 2013 6:50:14 PM
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Cheryl,

As you are no doubt well aware, those maps I linked to are from Dr. Chris Watson, a soil scientist at the CSIRO. Mark O'Connor just put them up on his website (with Dr. Watson's permission). But of course, the ACF and any scientist who doesn't support your line must be talking poppycock. What are your own qualifications in a relevant field, such as soil science, geohydrology, or conservation biology?

http://www.australianpoet.com/boundless.html

So far as the debate with Bernard Salt is concerned, here is Mark O'Connor's side of the argument. Demonstrating that he is wrong would give you and Andras far more credibility than making snide comments.

http://markoconnor-australianpoet.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/bernard-salt-is-not-demographer.html
http://markoconnor-australianpoet.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/baby-boomers-retiring-is-there-really.html
http://markoconnor-australianpoet.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/bernard-salt-in-damage-control.html
http://markoconnor-australianpoet.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/bernard-salt-abandons-his-baby-bust.html

Andras keeps jumping up and down about racism. Effectively, he is saying that we can't talk about environmental deterioration, growing social inequality, or damage to people's quality of life, because it might give comfort to racists. The problems with racism (which doesn't include just wanting your own culture to survive) are all too obvious. Apart from being hurtful, it wastes talent and creates animosity between groups of people. Nevertheless, I am far more concerned about people like him and Cheryl who are spruiking for enormous population growth and, in the worst case, setting us up for a collapse than I am about people who want to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. For that matter, how do we know that Andras isn't a real estate developer or migration agent who is simpy motivated by greed?

Finally, we export about 60% of our grain in an average year and 40% in a drought year.

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2010-05-06/can-we-feed-%E2%80%9Cbig-australia%E2%80%9D

Doubling our population removes this safety margin, and that's assuming we won't run into serious problems with climate change, the end of cheap oil, peak phosphate rock, etc.
Posted by Divergence, Sunday, 3 February 2013 12:19:31 PM
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One of the benefits of OLO is that one can actually prove by using ABS or referring to ABS citations or trade news the true state of the economy. We can also look at how the nation has fared over time.

http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2012/07/16/australian-food-exports-surge-to-historic-record.html

The above take their figures from the ABS and report on export and trade news. It gives an idea of the generative power of the Australian economy.

I only realised last year that almost all of the anti-pops have no background in economics or politics - they appear to be, well, I don't know, coming from a radical functionalist agrarian paradigm. This of course doesn't preclude them from having an opinion, it is just that they cite their own papers or dodgy self-serving blogs.

They go for the worst case scenarios. If its not asteroids, viruses, invading mongol hordes, rising sea levels, fracking earthquakes, pestilence, no phosphates or drowning polar bears, its something else, oh yes, heat waves.

The most interesting thing about the anti-pops is that they are to the Greens what Pauline Hanson was to the Liberals - but in reverse. Their Red Guard mentality is hostile to everything capitalism stands for and they seem to have had their brains zapped by Hamilton's book Growth Fetish. They also seem fond of quoting some chap who was or is a poet, which is nice. Apparently for them, the ageing population is just a doddle.

Their anti-population push will certainly garner some votes from the haters of immigrants and those from the lower middle classes who want to vent their spleens on those who have been more successful.

I worry for the anti-pops though as there are elements on the far right who have undoubtly been watching their anti-immigrant push and who may come calling. The feral gnomes won't like the far right at all - although they line up on race and possibly eugenics.
Posted by Cheryl, Sunday, 3 February 2013 1:25:31 PM
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1. Neither SPNG or SPA knew they were counting Australians, New Zealanders and working holiday makers in the number of migrants.

2. Neither SPNG or SPA have demonstrated they understand inflows, outflows and Australian visa regulations nor anything about how an economy operates.

3. The 2011 Census showed there had been no growth in household sizes over the last 10 years. In fact there was a rise in couple families without children (+20.3 per cent between 2001 and 2011), one-parent families (+16.8 per cent between 2001 and 2011).

4. Almost all of the world’s population growth has been confined to Africa and parts of Asia. In Australia, population growth has slowed and the hubs of growth are based in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and SE Queensland. This is part of a global trend of movement of people to the cities. The anti-people have not discussed this at all.

5. Australia’s current population is about the size of New York City and will grow to the approximate current size of Mexico City by 2050, although six million Boomers in Australia will have died by then.

6. According to the National Farmers Federation, there are approximately 134,000 farm businesses in Australia, 99 per cent of which are family owned and operated. Each Australian farmer produces enough food to feed 600 people, 150 at home and 450 overseas. Australian farmers produce almost 93 percent of Australia’s daily domestic food supply.

Australian live cattle exports totaled 694,429 head in 2011 (down 21 per cent on 2010 due to Indonesia cattle ban), valued at A$629.4 million, according to ABARE (2012). According to Australian livestock export industry statistics review (2011) the nation exported 2,458,448 sheep in 2011, valued at A$328 million. Food – we got.

The anti-pops won't tell you about that either. The anti-people lobby is a major embarrassment to the Greens and is giving comfort to the far right.
Posted by Cheryl, Sunday, 3 February 2013 2:18:02 PM
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Cheryl,

From Michael Lardelli's Energy Bulletin article (link above), based on ABARE statistics and graphs, which he cites

“From the broad summary above we can draw the following conclusions. Under current economic, environmental, energy supply and climatic circumstances:
1. We are currently not self-sufficient for fruit and vegetables.
2. In a good year we could supply about 3x our current population with wheat but, in a drought year, less than 2x our current population.
3. We could supply 2x our current population with red meat in normal – not drought – years.
4. We could probably double our pig and poultry meat production if we consumed all our coarse grain production domestically (i.e. no exports) and significantly reduced our wheat exports. This is not possible under drought conditions.
A population of 36 million Australians is approximately a 64% increase over today’s number. The rough analysis above shows that, in a drought year and under current conditions of resource supply, we would be nearing the limits of our ability to provide our own population with food and we are already beyond the limits of our ability to produce fruit and vegetables for ourselves. We would not be 'food secure'.”

You don't seem to understand that the economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. If you trash your environment, you also trash your economy. If qualified scientists call attention to the environmental problems, you accuse them of talking poppycock. You believe what you want to believe. You have no more understanding of the biophysical basis of our survival than you accuse us of having of the economy.

So far as the ABS statistics are concerned, what matters is how many people are living in Australia, not whether they are called migrants, New Zealanders, or something else. The issue is how many people are making demands on our environment and infrastructure. If the number of working holiday makers declines, then so will their share of the population statistics. Note that people are not counted unless they stay for a whole year.
Posted by Divergence, Sunday, 3 February 2013 5:18:36 PM
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But you're doing it gain Divergence! You're quoting either SPA or SPGN references which have nothing to do with the ABS. Where do you get this rubbish re meat and grain? If I thought the economy was a subsidiary of the environment I wouldn't be using the Internet to trade information.

Here is Lardelli's ref

http://www.stoppopulationgrowthnow.com/lardelli.html
Posted by Cheryl, Sunday, 3 February 2013 6:49:06 PM
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