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The Forum > Article Comments > Rediscovering prudence > Comments

Rediscovering prudence : Comments

By Clara Geoghegan, published 10/12/2012

The suicide of the London nurse, Jacintha Saldahna, who took the prank call from Aussie radio presenters, Mel Greig and Michael Christian has shocked the world.

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If they KNEW what the result of their prank was going to be, they would not have done it. There is probably much more to come out re the state of mind of the nurse but that will be up to the Coroner.

Lets cut to the chase here - FM disk jocks are not very bright. They are pretty much 'do it in your pants' sort of people. The real question was - where was their producer? Who gave the thumbs up for the prank? Normally, a producer would ask - 'what's the worse thing that could happen?' In this case, possibly impersonating a member of the Royal Family and seeking private medical information.

But a producer would have also thought a little of Middleton's topless pics scandal and the Levenson enquiry and might have surmised that the prank could have objectionable consequences. But would that alone have stopped them? Of course not. That's what they want - more media and greater coverage.

Now they have it in spades.
Posted by Cheryl, Monday, 10 December 2012 9:30:05 AM
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Well, it was a silly extremely juvenile joke, in keeping with typical Australian larikanism and disrespect for those, who simply take themselves and their archaic traditions, far too seriously?
Now a nurse is tragically dead, her family totally stunned and hurting enormously!
Why did she take her own life?
Was it just one of those mistakes, where someone battling to sleep, simply took too much medication by mistake?
It can and does happen, particularly when someone is a shift worker and exposed to the stress that is often part of hospital life, with far too many demands made on far too few coal-face workers?
Or, was it a deliberate act by someone already disturbed or distressed and at the end of her rope, by combative family or unforgiving economic circumstances, or both?
And if it was, what was the final straw that resulted in this tragedy.
The prank phone call?
Or, the over the top reaction of her superiors, an incredibly journo shy royal family, the typically precious British press, and or, number 10 downing street?
Was she given her notice!?
If I were a betting man, I'd bet in some combination of the latter?
If we are going to apportion blame, let's make sure all those, who may have a case to answer, are also included!
Those that point the accusing finger, need to look down at their own hand, if only to understand that three of those fingers are pointing back at themselves!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 10 December 2012 9:30:29 AM
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How horribly minimising to the poor woman to assume that a prank call is THE cause of her suicide. The reality is that unless we are made privy to her state of mind prior to her suicide we don't know what was going on in her life. The possibilities are endless. It was a dumb joke by the DJs but that's all it was.
Posted by Carz, Monday, 10 December 2012 10:14:01 AM
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These radio host are reflective of society. Any time of day or night you can turn the TV on and watch actions far more vile than that of the shocks. Parents are naive enough to send their kids to ga ga concerts and the like. Making a big scene over the foolish prank that sadly contributed to this girls suicide might make some fel better but achieves nothing. Secularism has led to huge increases in drug talking, teen sex and the natural outcome (suicide). Give these foolish presenters a break and address real issues.
Posted by runner, Monday, 10 December 2012 10:17:45 AM
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Is it not the lowest form of wit, to use a hospital were patients go for medical care; as a target for your ego amusement.
Posted by Kipp, Monday, 10 December 2012 10:28:05 AM
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As one poster pointed out recently, we "surmise" that it was suicide.

On that we'd probably judge that the prank may have acted as "the straw that broke the camel's back" in the scheme of this woman's life.

I do agree with runner, that "pranking" is reflective of the mores of our society. A particularly crude form of humour, it's become a standard for entertainment in popular TV and radio.

Perhaps that says something about the psychological state of play in modern industrial society?
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 10 December 2012 10:29:39 AM
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Perhaps what has surprised me most about this incident is that ANYONE thinks the conduct was even vaguely acceptable.
"Pranks" must be tempered by some societal norms which is why we would never prank a person with a disability if the prank was to mock that disability.
The same should have applied in this case. Kate Middleton was in hospital being treated for an ailment. If that wasn't enough, the "Princess Di" factor should have been considered, as should Leveson.
While noone knew that the nurse would suicide, it should have been foreseen that she would (at the least) be very upset, and may even have lost her job.
Both the incident and the reaction to it have been extremely poor.
Posted by Farnsy, Monday, 10 December 2012 10:35:13 AM
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@ Rhrosty.

Stick to your day job and don't pretent to being a betting man.

The Telepnone Call was THE trigger... anything else is a result.

Respect the dead.
Posted by Aspley, Monday, 10 December 2012 10:48:06 AM
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I thought a 'prank' was supposed to be funny without degrading or humiliating the recipient. Who rings a hospital ... yes a hospital full of sick and/or dieing people, to get a laugh?? I thought calls like this were illegal in Australia. I know people ring during bushfire season to report phantom bush-fires etc, and during the school holidays ..... does that put the 'hoax' radio presenters in the same box?? Childish, irresponsible, makers-of-public-nuisances. What about gaining the permission of the 'pranked' to broadcast the phone call??

These supposed adult media presenters, have put a lady in the lime-light. The English love their monarchy, especially the Prince and his new wife. The English are protecting their future King and his wife ... his pregnant wife. We will never know why the nurse suicided, but it sure as heck wasn't because two two Aussie shock-jocks stayed within the bounds of common decency. Is it decent behavior to harass a sick, pregnant lady?? Or poke fun at others to get a laugh?? Sound more like bullying.

Unfortunately, fame means fortune, more money. Regardless of what 'was going on in the nurses' life, she suicided. So very sad. Yes it is sad for the two presenters too but it is a result of their actions, the nurse did nothing wrong, her family did nothing wrong.They are the sufferers.

Where are the Aristotelian values today??, an earlier poster asked. Aristotle had ethics. Where are today's ethics and morals?? Do we need to look closer at the self?? Where is our compassion and sense of moral duty??
Posted by mally, Monday, 10 December 2012 11:13:06 AM
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Rediscovering sagaciousness might be a better title. It is easy for the wise old sage to deliver comments of extreme wisdom; some might say hindsight-driven erudition under the circumstances and given the emotiveness of the British media coverage. As many of the comments have indicated, the Aussie larrikin is not valued for his/her insight. That is surely something that comes with age. Let’s get things into perspective and ask the questions: What state of mind was this poor woman in to leave a husband and children behind? And has the Princess been harmed? It might be prudent to wait for an enquiry before blaming her death on a prank call.
Posted by David Leigh, Monday, 10 December 2012 11:13:42 AM
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I am reluctant to post this comment because if I say something provocative, like there is no God or that the U.S. is clearly creating an evil, imperial Empire, or that Palestine should be returned to the Palestinians, then someone, somewhere might end their life.

Where is the line to be drawn?
Posted by David G, Monday, 10 December 2012 11:23:33 AM
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"It seems too, that an unintended consequence is excusable. As a society we no longer seem to understand that actions have consequences."
And that is the crux of the matter. It was a harmless prank with no malice intended. 'Taking the piss' is part of our way of life, and if the consequences here are clearly tragic, how used to that have we become?
We live in a state of constant war with 'collateral damage', or unintended deaths, excused as unnecessary but unavoidable. A 'sorry about that' is all the explanation anyone will ever get.
We have a fiscal system in which the corporations who sent the world into a Global Financial Crisis are bailed out with taxpayer money. And part of that bail-out will go to executive bonuses, just don't ask why.
Meanwhile wedding parties catch Hellfire missiles and the middle class fronts the bankruptcy court.
Start there if you want to start apportioning consequences, not with a couple of DJ's who have never known better because they have never been taught better.
Posted by halduell, Monday, 10 December 2012 12:16:52 PM
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Agreed David G! Pranks are childish but in this case the DJs were not expecting to succeed and there was no malice involved.

I don't accept that a person of sound mind takes their life because of a failure that has no dire consequences or because they've been made a bit of a fool. If so, 75% of us would be in a cemetary

I'm pretty confident that contrary to what the Hospital Management is saying that both nurses involved would have certainly been 'counselled' over the incident and may have been facing further action. IMO that is the 'crime' the DJs committed. Their prank put a couple of innocents in a position that compromised their employment.

While this, along with humiliation, may have been the trigger for this woman's assumed suicide, other circumstances in her life must have been most unfortunate to be in that state of mind. That is, of course if it was suicide and not some other cause.

Whatever the case - all sympathy to the deceased woman's family - especially her children who will need comfort & support. Also a little for the 2 DJs who are undoubtedly horrified and distressed that a seemingly harmless bit of nonsense has probably contributed to a death.
Posted by divine_msn, Monday, 10 December 2012 12:17:37 PM
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"Where are the Aristotelian values today??, an earlier poster asked. Aristotle had ethics. Where are today's ethics and morals?? Do we need to look closer at the self?? Where is our compassion and sense of moral duty??"

I for one believe that over recent years we have raised today's youth and for some, our young adults also, without a word, for the most, those of us posting here understand, and understood in our younger years quite clearly, this would be the word NO.

Parents and teachers fear saying this word for a reason I know not what.

No teaches people that there are boundaries. Parenting and education today, primarily due to political correctness, seems to fear saying this word.

If you don't articulate NO to young people, they have no sense of wrong or at the very least an ability to question the actions they intend.

A very sad state of affairs.

We will probably never know the reason for this suicide and I for one do not want to know.

I think it is time everyone grew up and learned the NO word that little bit more, perhaps then there will be less crime, less inane and stupid behavious and some will learn to take responsibility for their own actions.

Here's hoping, but not waiting.
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Monday, 10 December 2012 1:04:06 PM
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Someone asked where the line should be drawn. Well, for starters the privacy of patients in hospital should never be violated. Second, ordinary members of the public should not be interviewed and their remarks publicised by the media without their prior knowledge and consent.

The media spin is blaming the dead nurse for upsetting the shock jocks. The victim is blamed for upsetting the tender sensibilities of the arrogant jocks. That is incredible and disgusting spin that should be criticised and rejected.

Rather than spin its way around it, the station should properly admit fault and apologise. No excuses. That is the responsible and civil thing to do.
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 10 December 2012 2:28:59 PM
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Geoff wants the 'no ' word in vogue

'If you don't articulate NO to young people, they have no sense of wrong or at the very least an ability to question the actions they intend.'

The problem then becomes that people have to admit moral relativism is a monumental flop. People's pride and ego triump over commonsense. God given morality is written on the conscience of man and unfortunately whited out by social engineers.
Posted by runner, Monday, 10 December 2012 2:36:35 PM
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"God given morality is written on the conscience of man and unfortunately whited out by social engineers."

Sorry Runner, but no 'God' has ever given morality to any man. Religion is more morally bankrupt than any radio station and it's employee's.

Stick with the story and leave 'your' fantasy in your own head where it belongs.
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Monday, 10 December 2012 2:57:27 PM
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I can't accept the premise of the entire article, contained within the first sentence.

"Due to"? We don't know that.

These pranks occur all the time. As sad as it is that this lady has ended her life, no one could've predicted that outcome.

At the very least, we need to avoid simplistic blame here because as Andrew Bolt wrote in today's Herald Sun, the original actions weren't made more or less wrong because of the nurse's actions afterwards. Either it was wrong and/or in bad taste to begin with or it wasn't. Perhaps it was. But we shouldn't create a scapegoat, we should carefully examine the underlying issues.

And another point is this. IF the DJs are to be considered complicit in this woman's death, then surely everyone who A. Forwarded it on or B. Laughed at it and every media organisation who replayed it must surely take some level of responsibility too!
Posted by Trav, Monday, 10 December 2012 4:39:15 PM
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Why on earth would anyone want to die for a member of the Royal family is beyond my thinking, who knows what mental problem she may have had before this event. I personally feel like committing suicide every time I open the Murdock papers and have to pass quickly past the latest news on the very uninteresting wealthy Royals, any one would think no one else has ever had a baby,lets have some reporting on the people having babies in poor countries and the problems they have to put up with,this would be far more interesting . My sympathy to the radio station and to the two members concerned, it was only a prank and at good one at that, get rid of the Royals then this sort of thing would not happen.
Posted by Ojnab, Monday, 10 December 2012 5:04:17 PM
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The indifference that shock jocks and in this instance socially illiterate DJ's, when they play selfish egotistic pranks with their listeners and the public, must be made aware of the possible consequences of their action, that can harm innocent people.
A person has taken their life. and irrespective of any underlying issues that person may have had, this prank ended her life.
Posted by Kipp, Monday, 10 December 2012 5:10:13 PM
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Ojanb,
The royals had nothing to do with this. The prank call could have been about any high profile person.

The nurse that died was humilated and ashaned that she failed in her professional duty. The incident was certainly talked about by the hospital staff, her peers. Maybe her English was insufficient to detect false accents and she accepted the call as genuine. She cannot be blamed for that, but critisism by her peers, either real or imagined, and by the world media would have been very hurtfull.

The blame falls squarely on the radio jocks, and station management, for broadcasting the episode. Bringing world wide attention to it and boasting about it.

They should be made to shoulder their responsibility and resign, never to work in radio again.
Posted by Banjo, Monday, 10 December 2012 7:16:28 PM
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We are all responsible for our own lives, I for mine, you for yours, if I decide to kill myself for some reason, whatever that is, then that is my decision only, no one else's, so stop blaming the radio station and radio personalities. There has been nothing mentioned about the reprimand that this nurse had to face and put up with from the hospital management, I could imagine it was severe, stop reporting on these two wealthy poms, I would say 95% of Ausies couldn't care less and would be very glad if the press stopped idolising them, I certainly am not interested in them.
Posted by Ojnab, Monday, 10 December 2012 7:24:48 PM
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For anyone who has been around for a while all this is old news, as it seems to have been taken straight out of that magnificent series Frontline. I can't remember the details, but someone committed suicide. No wonder the reputation of the media is little higher than that of politicians.
Posted by plerdsus, Monday, 10 December 2012 8:00:10 PM
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Banjo the Royal family put themselves above the rest of us, which is why the American independence came about all those years ago, no family is any better than any other family. The reason to take them off is the fact of a lot of stupid protocol, doff your hat, curtsy, bow,Ma am and all the rest of it, it is all very clownish to say the least in this present age, years ago they had respect but not now as most people now cannot be conned as of old. Other dignatories do not have this element of superiority that the Royals have and therefore do not lend themselves to ridicule,except in cartoons, it would be far easier to have a conversation with Obama than Liz, don' touch,wait till I speak, then answer, grin and think thank goodness she has gone.Without the Murdoch press and TV reporting about the Royals this whole affair would never have eventuated in the first place,I doubt very much if Mary (Denmark) had the same problem the radio station would not have been interested in doing what they did..
Posted by Ojnab, Monday, 10 December 2012 8:53:30 PM
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'Stick with the story and leave 'your' fantasy in your own head where it belongs. '

Geoff, maybe you should stop using absolute arguements showing your lack of reasoning or hypocrisy! No is an absolute in case you missed the irony of your reasoning.
Posted by runner, Monday, 10 December 2012 10:29:08 PM
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Apsley: Pretent? Ah yes, pre tent, or the days of caves and or cave dwelling?
That's a unique talent you have there, which would be highly useful in forensic medicine/cold case crime investigation!
Why, you could probably name your own six figure salary!
I mean, very few can claim to reach into and know the mind, mood and motivation, of a deceased person!
And it must be quite a comfort to know you're always right!
You'll have a nice day now y'hear.
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 8:45:33 AM
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Has anyone else noticed that since the Jacintha Saldahna suicide, there has been no further "News" about the "Royal Pregnancy"?

Just goes to prove nothing is 100% bad.

Now if we were not to hear, see or read another 'nauseating' word or image related to Kate Middleton Windsor until the infant is on the ground - that would be wonderful!!

About time the Jacintha Saldahna story was given a rest as well. There's an inquest looming. Report the outcomes.

Thank-you in anticipation News Media.
Posted by divine_msn, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 1:57:21 PM
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Kate Middleton the British media say, has relapsed into acute morning sickness.
Posted by Kipp, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 4:18:13 PM
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Kipp I am having an orgasm thinking about it, the poor dear, now she knows what most women put up with , babies are not picked out of cabbages, so how about the press not reporting , we are sick and tired hearing about these two poms.
Good to see the Hospital is now coming under scrutiny for the suicide death, about time.
Posted by Ojnab, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 7:37:40 PM
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Kipp - who freaking cares? Very few of us....

Fact: The majority of pregnant women will suffer some degree of nausea of pregnancy. Most find the condition eases or disappears towards the end of the first trimester or in early second.

Some less fortunate ladies have severe nausea which requires medical intervention - IV fluids and anti-emetic measures on one or more occasions. MRS WINDSOR IS HARDLY UNIQUE. She may even be unlucky enough to have 'morning sickness' through her entire pregnancy - BUT I DON'T NEED OR WANT TO KNOW!

So now I'm hanging out for some horrible natural disaster or accident or mass murder, bombing WHATEVER - so I can resume watching a news channel without needing a bucket nearby myself ...
Posted by divine_msn, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 8:23:45 PM
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I'm needing a bucket listening to people hanging out for their daily dose of disaster, bloodshed, tragedy and pestilence - because they're so nauseated by gossip.

What an odd paradigm is industrial society.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 8:51:46 PM
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Clara, the whole world shocked, show me the figures then I will believe you, that once again is bull put out by the press for gullible people to believe.
Posted by Ojnab, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 9:11:23 PM
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To the "Australian' readers on here, we know you don't care thats why you are News Corp tragics!
Posted by Kipp, Wednesday, 12 December 2012 3:53:58 PM
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To blame the Radio station is a laughable, Society needs a certain level of robustness to operate. Obviously the nurse was being terrorised by the Hospital administration, probably threatened with the sack and black balling, probably racist. No wonder this happened, institutional derriere covering and scape-goating.
A simple-minded narrative and away go the Haters of the chattering class. The same as the punching murder at the Cross, alcohol, a subsidiary factor, the real cause being the killer was hyped on drugs.
Posted by McCackie, Friday, 14 December 2012 6:47:07 AM
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