WmTrevor,

Brilliant!

It looks like a lot of "stealing" has taken place over the milennia - natural progressions depending on power plays.

Looking to the past, it's notable that whoever had control of this area was linked to it in a geographically unbroken conglomeration of power stretching out across land dimensions. Not now. That Israel feels that it is surrounded by aggressors is because it is supported from without by imperial superpowers - it is isolated physically as opposed to being tethered to and part of a larger empire in physical dimensions. It's akin to an being an outpost of the Western empire, sustained by modern superpower structure, but separated from it in a geographical sense.

Jeremy you query my comment about Israelis “remaining at risk of Islamic terrorists who refuse to accept an independent Jewish presence in the Middle East” and you imply that I am exaggerating.

Doesn’t the Hamas Charter itself reject the presence of any infidel in any part of what Hamas considers “Muslim lands”? And thereby categorically rejecting any semblance of coexistence with infidels?

It’s pretty clear which side rejects peace at any price.

Scribbler, you state “To be honest, this is a case of potayto, potahto. Whether you call the killing of Al-Jabari an “assassination”, “targeted killing” or an “extrajudicial killing”, in the eyes of the world and, most particularly, the UN, it is not an acceptable practice”.

I don’t think “unacceptable practices” by the UN or some other Trojan horse of the third world is legally enforceable. As I understand it, targeted killings have not been found to be illegal in any court lording over the conflict in question.

Of course I may be wrong and welcome any insight from any case that can be drawn to my attention.

If anyone thought TGs were illegal the plaintiffs would surely pony up – or have their supporters on their behalf pony up - to some transnational court and test their allegations.

Furthermore you mention the Geneva Convention in relation to the Territories. Interesting points you raise. I suppose you’ll get Israel to better adhere to your prescription when Communist Vietnam terminates its occupation of South Vietnam; when the Motherland stops its occupation of Tibet and when the USA removes itself from all territories seized from the Mexicans including but not limited to Texas and California.

David G:

“The whole world knows that Israel desperately wants to get rid of all non-Jews from its territory…a religiously 'pure' State”

Please help me here. I haven't seen any evidence of this global piece of wisdom. Can you direct me to where this world knowledge is shown?

“… Israel has plans for Greater Israel which involves taking land from its neighbours by force…creating a Jewish Super-State”

Can you please explain then why are they spoiling their plans by returning the Sinai, southern Lebanon, and withdrawing from Gaza?

Unless you can back up your nonsensical claims please spare us from them.

Geoff of Perth:

“the Israeli government… incite murder and genocide on a group of civilian people that have no means to defend themselves”

Inciting murder seems to be the specialty of Hamas and their cronies. Haven’t they been firing rockets at Israeli civilians and calling for suicide bombings for years? Even their charter calls for the elimination of Israel.

“a genocidal bunch of maniacs in charge of god knows what of a government system.”

This, in-fact, is a perfect description of the regime in Gaza.

“Most intelligent 'Israeli' people deplore the biased, criminal and unjust attacks on innocent men, women and children in Gaza”

Most intelligent people around the world deplore the daily terror attacks on Israel.

“giving back the tradition lands to the Palestinian people would be a much greater example of humanity”

Israel has already tried that when they left Gaza years ago. It didn’t work too well as it encouraged the rocket terror attacks to intensify.

“I just hate the complete hypocrisy of the Zionistic government of Israel using the country’s military to do their filthy religious work”

You mean doing their filthy work of self defence and attempting to eliminate terror attacks on the country?

Emp Julian:

“…a racist state for those of their ethnic group who opt… to exclude all they would define as goyim or reduce them to non-citizenship”

Actually about 20% of Israel’s citizens are non-Jews, a far higher proportion than non-Muslims in, say Egypt or Jordan (or most other Arab countries).

Jonathon you refuse to address the fact that any policy of authorized pre-emption immediately validates pre-emption on the part of those you wish to attack. Ergo all it does is promote escalation and removes any claim to the moral high ground

Shal sorry but I do not understand your logic when you say that Hamas can argue pre-emptive actions on their part.

Last I looked the Israelis strike at military infrastructure or at folk who have engaged in terrorist activities. It is Hamas who choose not to strike military installations but instead target civilians.

I don't know of any legal precedent that Hamas can quote to explain away their heinous crimes in the context of self defence. Especially given their charter which reads very much like an incitement to war/terror/aggression and makes it very clear that living in harmony with infidels is a non starter. And if there was such a precedent then I am sure it will be applied by Al Qaeda to rationalise their behaviour, too.

I don't see what there is not to understand.

if Israel argues that it has the right to strike pre-emptively in order to protect itself, then the Palestinians have the right to use the same argument to strike at Israel. So the Palestinians can argue legitimately, if you accept the legitimacy of pre-emption, that their rockets are a pre-emptive strike to deal with Israeli aggression. You, having argued that this is a legitimate argument to justify Israeli actions, would need to concede the Palestinian right to the same legitimacy.
If you don't then you're saying that pre-emption is only legitimate for Israel - this, logically, is an untenable position.