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The Forum > Article Comments > (Why) (Do) Politicians Lie (?) > Comments

(Why) (Do) Politicians Lie (?) : Comments

By Don Aitkin, published 14/11/2012

Now in ordinary life all of us tell untruths from time to time. Some of them are venial, and we excuse them as 'white lies'.

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The Shorter Oxford defines a lie as 'a false statement made with intent to deceive'.

The bit “intent to deceive” is important. So, by this definition, would you argue that, if someone has convinced themselves that what they are saying is correct, they are not lying?

I suspect Craig Thompson has convinced himself he has done nothing wrong by stealing from the Health Services Union. Does that mean he is not lying?

I suspect Julia Gillard has convinced herself she did nothing wrong in participating in fraud and apparently receiving cash and other benefits from the AWU. Does that mean she is not lying?

[Oh, by the way, is it acceptable to use “she” in referring to the PM? I notice that she objects to Tony Abbott referring to her as “she” in Parliament, but she, herself, refers to him as he. What a are the new rules for Political Correctness in Australia? Will they be made “LAW” under this current Green-Labor government?

When PM Paul Keating misled the people about his LAW, (he walked away from it after the election) was he lying? When Julia Gillard calls Tony "he" is that lying, or is she just hypocritical, misleading cunning, tricky and deceptive?]
Posted by Peter Lang, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:31:55 AM
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Well, they are not lies, just non-core promises, like say, a never ever GST?
Q: How can we tell if politicians are lying?
A: Their lips move?
Q: what would it indicate, if on leaving, say Canberra, you saw several politicians, buried up to their necks in sand?
A; A very severe shortage of sand?
On a more serious note, politicians have to be free to change their minds.
Julia Gillard, claimed before the election, [which all the polls had her winning by a handsome margin,] that no govt she led would introduce a carbon tax.
Her chances of winning were destroyed by a leaking, Julia hating, traitor, who simply didn't give a flying French Frankfurt, if he/she destroyed a once great party in the process!
So, when the election was over and her party numbers decimated, she was left with no other choice, but to adopt green policies, as the price of alliance; and or, govt?
Sadly, the days of political loyalty and or, sorry no comment, are behind us, as it seems, is integrity in political leaders?
That said, what truly decent person, would want to enter politics today, and endure the endless media microscope; or your life being dredged through, for some personal peccadilloes, from your juvenile past, that might or might not, somehow advantage your, digging the dirt, political opponents?
As for Thomson?
His case, if there is one, remains unheard!
And as far as I know, our law still turns on a presumption of innocence, unless your part of the kangaroo court mob, ready willing and able to dig or sling mud, or something a good deal smellier, in the hope some of it will stick!
If that is the case? Then beware the fan!
Rhrosty
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 11:51:11 AM
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Peter,

That's an intriguing thought, Peter, and my answer is that adult, rational person cannot persuade themselves that they have done nothing wrong when indeed they have done something wrong. If they say that, they are thinking of how they would defend themselves in court, or in argument. If the evidence is against you, and you know it is, saying that you have done nothing wrong is very close to a lie, though you may not be intending to deceive others so much as boosting your own self-confidence.
Posted by Don Aitkin, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 8:22:08 PM
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A correction: Juliar didn't lie!

What she said is: "There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead" and indeed there is no carbon tax.

That the new tax is called "carbon" doesn't mean that it is indeed a tax on carbon.

Firstly, the current tax is claimed to be a tax on the production of carbon dioxide (CO2), not carbon.
Secondly, it does not tax all producers of CO2, only some.
Thirdly, it is not even a tax since it produces a negative revenue.
Fourthly, she doesn't lead the government - it's her ego which does.

All it comes down to, is a usual socialist exercise to take money from some, give it to others [as bribe] and on the way provide paper-shuffling jobs to as many friends as possible.

So no promise is broken!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:20:09 PM
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Perhaps part of the problem is that telling the truth can get you into so much trouble. It's so much easier to either say nothing or - if you work in Indigenous Affairs - repeat the dominant narrative, word for word, regardless of how ridiculous or untrue it may be.

After all, Andrew Bolt said just what many, many Indigenous people have been saying for years - that people can call themselves whatever they like, but they shouldn't necessarily make money out of it - and look what happened to him.

Best wishes, Don :)

Joe lane
Adelaide
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 15 November 2012 8:25:08 AM
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Excellent article. Thanks, Don.

The distinction is a vital one – often not made with enough care – between (a) aspirational commitments, (b) specific promises which turn out impossible to deliver because of external factors, (c) promises abandoned carelessly and (d) blatant lies.

Just on this, Don: “I've met a couple of real liars in my time, but neither of them was a politician.”

Do you mean “met personally” or “encountered at close quarters”? Because there do seem to be “real liars” in public life whose lies have been recorded and scrutinised carefully.

John Howard and several of his ministers made assertions during the 2001 election campaign about asylum seekers throwing children into the ocean which they knew were false.

Indeed, Mr Howard was labelled “the lying rodent” by a senator from his own side of politics.

More recently, the current Liberal leader has made statements he knew were false, including this one satirised here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvYzLIywCiA

Overseas, Mitt Romney has been called repeatedly by observers for deliberate falsehoods. Steve Benen at Rachel Maddow’s website endeavoured to document them all. His list totalled 917 by election day.

Is this a problem endemic in Conservative political parties? It would be interesting for you to explore if this is so, Don. And why.

It seems rife in Conservative media organisations also, notably Australia's Murdoch news outlets.

That blatant lies are actually quite effective in Australia may perhaps be illustrated by Loudmouth’s comments, above:

“Andrew Bolt said just what many, many Indigenous people have been saying for years - that people can call themselves whatever they like, but they shouldn't necessarily make money out of it - and look what happened to him.”

No, this is not true. Justice Bromberg made it clear that the law protects any genuinely held opinion, however obnoxious or offensive it may be to others.

But the law does not protect malicious fabrication. Andrew Bolt concocted at least 19 blatant damaging lies about specific individual Aboriginal people. That was why he lost the recent court case. Not for expressing his views on non-Aboriginal people rorting Indigenous funding.
Posted by Alan Austin, Thursday, 15 November 2012 3:57:13 PM
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