Does 'caring for this country' include burning off most of the original vegetation and killing all the megafauna? If Indigenous Australians are going to be treated as environmental custodians, they already have a lousy record.

Jon J,

Yes, Aboriginal Australians didn't "protect" or "care for" the environments any better than Europeans, like people all over the planet, they modified the environment to suit themselves. However, they're experts at maintaining the pre-European "natural" environment, so their knowledge and skills are essential.

<<Those who've cared the longest should have the most say>>

Love the way that it’s all about *equal rights* & *ending racism*. Then suddenly, the discourse shifts to *special recognition*
and *more say for some*.

<<“War is Peace” Freedom is Slavery” and “Ignorance is Strength.”>> The Ministry of Truth --1984

Mac what on earth makes you think the pre-european "natural" environment was a good one. Have you actually seen any? About all it was good for was hunting kangaroos, & setting fire to.

This world heritage garbage is about as bad as the long haired radical ratbag greenies have been. Nothing is ever enough. They won't settle until they've got the lot, & were all running around naked chasing those kangaroos to get a feed.

I suppose there's one good thing about that, No UN or World Heritage to worry about.

they do
but no one acts on it

http://public.worldfreemansociety.org/index.php/forum/23-new-zealand/108935-sick-babies-turned-away-because-they-were-not-registered-with-the-crown-shame-on-you-papakura-marae-nz

its the little things
like govt facilitating ongoing genoci9de

Hasbeen,

I wasn't making any value judgements as to which of the various environments was "better", I agreed with Jon J's comment that Indigenous Australians also had a devastating effect on Australia's flora and fauna.

In my opinion, the phrase "Aboriginal Australians lived in harmony with the environment" is PC nonsense.

I should note that the title of this article has been changed by me slightly. Leah didn't suggest that Aborigines should have the greatest say, just a significant say so I modified that part of the heading.

I think the argument over what affect aborigines had on the environment is a bit of a false one. Every animal affects its environment, human beings included. Aboriginal ways of life certainly shaped what we see, and left a softer foot print than our own, and they still live in the sorts of areas that are likely to be heritage listed.

To me that suggests that they should have a significant say, and have significant expertise, unless your aim in listing is to ultimately produce a landscape that hasn't existed since before the last glaciation.

has anyone been to outback communities and seen the enormous amount of rubbish lying around? Have they seen how skinny the dogs are? Please!

its funny how grayman says that the title changed him
i feel the title very dramatic..longest mean strongest
get real

lets get other things straight..like we got old folk/elders
but they are only advisers..they arnt chiefs..[we dont got chiefs..that rule has gone on the longest

the 2de longest rule is..concensus..till we all agree nuthing happens

3 rd longest rules..is dont pee in water we need to drink[then along comes civilisation..and yells at a child for NOT defuckating..into water

this absurdity..must be clear..but we had more law
we had law that my totum is my duty to protect/give sanctury to
so my totum feeds you..as your totum feeds me

we never ate before planting the next crop
we KNOW..that solid rule is discovery..never take more than half
thus half is left for the rest..who also CANNOT take more than half

so we get to mens business
and womans business..in the

[see wikiseed/wikigeld

im noting the wurds used..lol..do you know..what indigenouse means?
native to an area/sans culture..as opposed to our ORIGONAL...ABorigonal culture..that said..we are a part of the land..like your finger is a part of your body..

the absurdity of owning..isnt on the table
fairuse is..i feel if you got an aset//more THAN HALF..must remain
and A TRADESMAN>>..OWNS HIS TOOLS*..so great you found it..took half..just walkaway

see with our way..you dont carry stuff arround..ALL THE TOOLS..needed..to survive is where its needed

the fishtrap..is there..by the rock dam
the cutting stones near the spear tree..the grinding stone next to the grain..when white fella come give us sick smallpox blankets..he take our tools from the sacred places,..where they were of best community use..

but what of this past stuff..well it is still going down..everytime someone takes a bit of your fathers asets..even more than half

by saying your indigenous..like a tree
your not ab-origonknee

see white fela he come from the cold lands..he stores up for winter
we have food all year round,,dont need to hide food behind walls

we had food growing beside our highways[ok paths..that the 'explorers simply followed lol..in diss/covering us

we had food growing beside our highways[ok paths..that the 'explorers simply followed lol..in diss/covering us
UOG,
My personal observations are that the pre-invasion indigenous to this country had absolutely no concept of harmony especially with the land. They still rape & pillage the environment just as they did over several thousand years prior. We just do it more efficiently because of technology. The reason why the wide-eyed open-mouthed do-gooders keep waffling on about this imagined harmony is because the damage remained low due to the small number of inhabitants & technological absence.. Nothing else, nothing planned or designed through any consideration for the environment. The indigenous people have existed in a non-progressive way unlike every other society. For some reason, most likely due to ideal climate there was perhaps no point in building houses etc.
Were they a happier lot then ? We'll never know. All I know is that I haven't yet met one who desired to go go back to that existence in favour of the modern way of life.

individual,

Can you outline the major environmental damage caused by pre-invasion Aboriginal people?

"....We just do it more efficiently because of technology..."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12616079@N00/5141509640/

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/salinity/default.htm

You said it.....

We just do it more efficiently because of technology..."
Poirot,
I think you misunderstood, I meant we've been far more effective in making a mess of the place.
btw. Look up the Punjak Jaya mine in West Papua on Google earth. It makes the Pilbara look like an amateur job.
Frightening really !

Bill Gammage,in his book "The biggest estate on earth", by Allen & Unwin, shows that pre-colonisation/invasion the Aboriginal people were expert at caring for Country. There was farming and harvesting and storage of grain, that the explorers stole. Explorers found stone houses, villages of stone houses, extensive yam farming and ophisticated eel farming. Trading was occurring across the continent.

I suggest that the ill-informed posters stop being so lazy and go and read the facts instead of relying on outdated and debunked settler myths and legends.

It is quite clear that Aboriginal people cared for their country for millenia - long before England was ever settled.

It is quite clear that Aboriginal people cared for their country.
Aka,
Please stop inventing history, that's just so yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JA6vRC1xW_c

its so sad its pathetic
for those who cared

should you have a say

there is often more killing under a liar..telling you things you WANT TO HEAR..but we are all got feet of clay..dont idiolise anyone..but love all

of the image..to the topic
nuthin..it just minded me of a title*..that is designed to form a basic of concensus..not debate..hearing..but knowing the wrong ones are listening

thus we get racists
kids really believe liars..thus kids are brutally racist..once its taught by egsample*..fear based control..:works

UOG,
Whatever it is you're saying I can only go by what I have either read, seen in sketches & photographs & what I am experiencing nowadays first hand. I just find some peoples' attempts to portray the indigenous of from before european invasion & possibly from before any other invasion before that as having existed in a Nirvana kind of situation. Coastal tribes would unquestionably have fared much better than the desert dwellers. The second wave of explorers found out fairly quickly that many indigenous merely existed & were constantly on the war path with other tribes. It wasn't a healthy, loving society as some would have us believe. Having said that I do in no way imply that our ways are any better but I can't help wondering why so many indigenous desire our commodities & services more than their traditional whatevers. Yes much of the best grounds they lived on have been taken from them & the compensation they received was only adequate in the settlers views. The indigenous did get the short end of the stick. They also did that to each other. One thing is for sure, they did not live in Nirvana.
Their record in caring if they had one has not been evident to me in over 30 years. Perhaps I've lived among different indigenous people to those who cared the longest.

individual quote..""Coastal tribes..would unquestionably have fared much better than the desert dwellers.""

thats so sad..you seem to believe that..recall the 'pureblood tassie'origonie..got genocided..the last 50 attended by 6 docters..on a baren island..lets fasce it..they came by boat..

where they landed they depleted resourses..impregnated woman/raped young gin..took their fish..tra,mpled over their fish traps

in short where the red coats went..water was poluted..emptied/controled..if you recall good ol usa..near kill off the bison..just top starve the natives to death[its like you never heard of joseph banks..explloration parties..that left behind small pox

usually direct off the boat..his small pox camPAIN..HE FELT was so succesfull he DECLARED terras ulious..empty land..CAUSE HE THOUGHT HE KILLED US ALL

"" The second wave of explorers found out fairly quickly that many indigenous merely existed & were constantly on the war path with other tribes.""

nbo white soldiers..find outcasts and mal content..appoint leaders/chiefs..WHEN WE DIDNT EVER HAVE "CHIEFS"..many so called elders..were decended from outcasts..of course outcasts tok revenge..on the tribe they CAST OUT FROM*..but only cause invaders wewre so clever at divide and con queer

"" It wasn't a healthy,loving society as some would have us believe.""

many old people lived over 100 years of age..they wernt poisend..by chlorinated/fleurided water..sure whitefella gives em poisend flour..but until then..death was much later

lead poisening was common..
with rapists and drunks..many themselves out-cast from ol brinie

""The indigenous did get the short end of the stick.''

quote continue

lol more than you realise..indigenous,..means sans culture
like a 'native tree/animal,,ie no culture/no law..is the key insult

were not indiginous..we ab-origonal..the first people
the people elders..of the monb that sent the young on\es alone into the holy land/maybe*

it is well recorded the dutch abducted a tribe doing cerimony..on van die mens island/after george warumpies mob thrashed the invader's around a bit

anyhow continue quote

""They also did that to each other.""

NOT..as systematic brutally..as have the euro's fought killed invaded..EACH OTHER..well into last century..not to mention colonisation./slavery..alive to this day

we dont do war..
any proof you can supply..of your declarations..arnt founded on proof..at best opinion or bias?

those not proud of histry..hide it..[go figure

worse i found many indig,..
actually got their oppressors last name ..many their genes

you must think child taking is ok..like in uk ww2
kids/patrents lied to as kids..declared abandond..were farmed out to canada ]australia..to get the blighters working..and keep their parents working

so much we see in police killing miners in south afrika..happend here gtoo..heck you heard just today of the paki workhouse..

90 dead workers..locked kin
so they cant go to toilet..it takes that master slave mindset

""One thing is for sure, they did not live in Nirvana""

nor do we

""Their record in caring..if they had one""

lol..hgow insulting..
you infering..if they had any ability to care?
its sad..but many things 'aussie' come from our first people..like life saving..you may notice many..called 'walkers'..who patrolled their trust..to keep it safe..

we are caretakers..have to take care
or the lanmd soon evicts us

""has not been evident to me..in over 30 years. Perhaps I've lived among different indigenous people to those who cared the longest.""

yes it seems you may have
i got a lot from books..then spent ten years ammoung the outcasts

how the invader cares for the invaded

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/12/us-palestinian-israel-farming-idUSBRE88B0V820120912

it was refined in europia,..perfected in israel
life time regugee camps..never to return..plus held captive in your brothers prisdon camp..behind huge walls..wow..

in europia..they used to kill the male..now its preferd..to kill men slowly..sterilise the not fit to breed by irradiating the indig mob

yep strael again

but back to european war-fair?..
kill hgusband/force the femail..to change her name..
now a spoil of war,,for the killer..of her husband..

if only people knew how methodical it was..like joseph banks was trained in his poisening..in new foundland..they dun it there too

and lest we forget aids was caried by live polio virus..
tested now rampant..in afrika..its still genocide..101

its just the darkies' didnt die fast enough..for the white hat brigade..as many invaders die..from the other local diseases..displacement never overtook genocide

via ..the invader/dis-ease..

but soon with aids..who know another terror nullious..or empty land..seems desirable..to those here to reap the eath..

despoiling that they cant steal outright

UOG,
I'm sorry I have severe difficulty with your writing. I think the gist of it is that you don't agree with my assertion.
Why not just say so. I always believed the word Aboriginal was an english word derived from Latin. And yes, those whom I referred to as indigenous did get a raw deal, at least I thought I'd made that quite clear, unless of course the acknowledgment is not sufficient for you & your need to pontificate on.

im sorry individual please see i reacted THE WORDS
not you the person..

without them words..that anger of the words
would still be burning inside me

im not sure,if..its good letting it out..
but holding it in has made my body one big ball of pain..

any pain my words give
is nothing to my inner pains
of people judging others..when its a fact..if you had the same gifts or burdens..you too would be egsactly..the same

fruit dont fall far from the tree
colonisation is fithly business..AS BAD OR WORSE..than in?..en-slavement

the ones who REALLY CARE
should have a predominant say

legth isnt anything
long isnt strong..but biami wants him who puts his crreation..to best or better use..not abuse

in trible society..if you cant keep it clean
leave..it will be loved by other..than you of love of abuse

you used genericly
never specificly

i know we all care..but somehow some carers make things better
and other care..makes things worse.

ask my brother ..by treaty* dennis walker
who once said

men make treaty
/love life logic certainty/

colonisers make laws
/find steal hide/