Poirot,

Who said irony wasn't wasted on the pseudo-Left ?

To get back to principles, and away from your obsessive apologetics for show-ponies, let's look at things one at a time:

* is Sweden some sort of puppet state of the far Right in the US ? I don't think so.

* should female Wikileaks volunteers be taken advantage of and simply told to shut up, for the good of the cause ? I don't think so.

* should people answer for any alleged misdemeanours or worse ? I think so, no matter who and what they are charged with, or what great benefit they have done to entire humanity: face up to charges, and if one has done the crime, one does the time.

* should Assange & Co have redacted those thousands of emails before they passed them over to The Guardian and The NY Times ? Yes, I think so. Of course, The Guardian and the Times should have had the decency to do it themselves.

* should we have the courage and integrity to be able to criticise our 'own' ? yes, we should. Yes, we should praise them for what good they may have done but one does not cancel out, or give licence to, the other.

* should we support the freedom of expression and the right to know, even if it leads to bitter criticism and differences of opinion, even - horror ! - causing offence ? Yes, of course we should.

* should we promote the rights and power of formerly and currently oppressed groups, such as Indigenous people, ethnic groups, women and the working class ? of course we should.

Right, those are the principles I would support, to begin with.

Your turn :)

"To get back to principles..."

We've already examined the basis for your splendidly principled argument.

"...and away from your obsessive apologetics for show ponies..."

You mean as opposed to your obsessive compunction to insert the term "r00t" in every post?

"....face up to charges, and if one has done the crime, one does the time."

You label an uncharged man a "scumbag show-pony" because of the Swedish allegations. So far there are no charges, there is no crime, and the Swedish authorities have not taken up offers by Assange to be questioned.

Anyway, I'll leave you to your obvious vexation and envy.

Good luck with that.

Cheers

: )

Hi Poirot,

An interesting take on 'principle':

"So far there are no charges, there is no crime, and the Swedish authorities have not taken up offers by Assange to be questioned."

By the same token, the US has not initiated any charges against Assange - there is no evidence (apart from a few Tea Party nut-cases) that the US intends any harm whatsoever to Assange.

Which does leave one to suspect that his faux outrage about being taken from Sweden to the US is a cover for - quite possibly - his actual offences against your sisters.

The paranoia of the faux Left is quite intriguing - here's their boy, accused by a couple of his erstwhile devoted supporters to having abused them and they have initiated legal proceedings against him, which the state involved (Sweden) is legally bound to pursue. He happens to be in Britain, and after the standard legal proceedings there, the British are legally bound to ensure that he is taken to Sweden to face those charges. It is not up to him to dictate terms.

So what does he do ? He jumps bail (which must have pissed off some of his wealthier supporters), skips to the embassy of another country, buggering up their relations with Britain and Sweden in the process, and dragging most South American countries unnecessarily into the fray. The standard anti-Yank paranoia takes care of the rest.

So where will it all end up ? He won't ever be able to leave the Ecuadorian embassy without being immediately grabbed by the british police, carrying out their duties. That's the bottom line. His dream of becoming a potato farmer in the back-clocks of Ecuador will not come to fruition, UNLESS he submits to the legal processes, goes to Sweden to face the charges, and is either

(a) found not guilty and returns to Britain, then to the back-blocks of Ecuador OR

(b) found guilty, does his six months or whatever and returns to Britain etc.

What have I got wrong, Poirot ?

Love,

Joe :)

Poirot et al,

Something has been raised in the mainstream media, but has received little air here:

The UK has an extradition treaty with the US, and a pro US government. Why then would JA's extradition to Sweden pose any more of a risk than staying in the UK, especially as a standard condition of extradition from the UK is a clause that would require Sweden to obtain permission prior to extraditing him on further?

SM,

http://justice4Assange.com/US-Extradition.html#WUKJA

Points relevant to UK-US extradition.

Loudmouth,

As yet there are "no charges".

I'm about done with this subject for now - got a big day in the vegie patch coming up.

Cheers

: )

Hi Poirot,

So that's a 'yes' ?

Are you agreeing that yes, currently there are no US charges against Boy Wonder ?

That it would be easier for the US to lay such charges against Assange in the UK than in Sweden ?

That, as Shadow Minister points out, yes, there would be all sorts of legal qualifications, national AND international, put on Assange's extradition from the UK to Sweden, and thence to the US, i.e. from his 'custodial' country to a third country ? In law, after all, it is proposed to ship him off from his 'custodial' country to Sweden for a single purpose, i.e. to question him about charges of rape - and if he is either found not guilty, OR tried, found guilty and does his time like a real man should, is to be automatically shipped back either to the Uk or a country of his choice. Perhaps Ecuador, where he can pursue his love of potato-farming.

That yes, there is no evidence that the Swedes are contemplating shipping him off to the US if asked - in fact, no evidence that the US might ask ? Have they done so yet ? Wouldn't they have to ask the UK first as his 'custodial' country ? [Sorry, I don't know the proper legal term for the responsibilities of a state towards its inhabitants in protection of their rights; their 'guardian of last report' maybe].

Well, that's done and dusted then. Thank you, Poirot.

Cheers,

Joe :)