Allan

Thank you for answering.

Yes, we have made a mess of things. The West has no business in any Muslim country. They will not become democratic; they will not respect human rights. Note, however, the Western military interventions to save Muslims. Do we get credit for those? No, of course not.

As to Muslims being outstanding citizens. Yes, it is possible --- except that Muslims will say one thing, do one thing around infidels, and another among themselves. They are afraid to challenge Islam. They will not criticize anything about Islam or their dear prophet, no matter how vile. They problem is that people like you make excuses for them and let them get away with it -- this means they will not change.

Until I see Muslims -- where they dominate, that is -- treating others as they want to be treated, I see no reason to believe they have any goodwill towards non-Muslims or the courage to stand up to their radicals (or to address the moderates what refuse to talk about the the hate and violence in the Quran and hadith).

Or you could do this, just ask a Muslim friend to condemn Mohammad's attacks on his peaceful neighbors or the words of Allah that tell Muslims that non-Muslims are lower than animals, and to be attacked and subdued. Read Quran 9:111 and remember that Muslims believe this to be a divine mandate from Allah.

Maybe you hadn't guessed but I don't like Islam. Muslims have threatened me and my family for saying things they don't like, but which are absolutely true and from their own sources. The problem is Muslims, all Muslims, are incapable of critically reflecting on their religion. It may be fear or culture but it means that they will not change nor will they live in peace with us. The so-called good Muslims will have to choose and most will put Islam above our rights and freedoms. Sad.

Anyway, thank you for your observation and reply. Just remember this conversation in the future. I told you so.

AA said "So we really don’t have to be so pessimistic and fearful, do we?"

Well Alan, since you are or haved lived in France, could you enlighten us about the extent of debate about no-go areas in France where I have read even emergency services are reluctant to go.

Yes, we should take a fair share of refugees,but lwet's not dream on about the lack of things to worry about.

Bob Birrell, one of Australia's experts on refugee and immigration matters, considers gettign rid of Aust's adherence to Refugee Convention to deal better with related issues.

http://theconversation.edu.au/why-australia-should-abandon-the-refugee-convention-4003

Alan, of course boat people are treated better. No waiting around in refugee camps for a decade, straight through they go, taking away places from those who can't afford the boat trip, like the Burmese.
Women and children, largely miss out. Most boat people are young males whose families can afford to pay for their trip.

Yes, Australia finally had a trade surplus! Wow! Iron ore was at 180$ and coal at a record, just then. Meantime iron ore is now 110$, coal has dropped back enough for them to start closing some mines. But of course the real figure to take note of is the current account.
Ours used to run at -6% for years, a bit like Greece today. Right now its -3%, worse than France. Those making money, ie with profitable current accounts, include Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Holland, etc. We keep borrowing more to pay the current account deficit, but its mainly private borrowing, not Govt borrowing. ( until Mr Rudd came along, anyhow)

You are out of date on the world industry. Merino numbers are down by two thirds as farmers could not make a living and left the industry.
The wool in that suit might mean 10$ to the grower, most spinning now happens in China, not Italy. We can't even sell our lamb to the EU, bar a few thousand tonnes a year, so that 4.50$ a kg, paid to the grower, is hardly a premium. Yet those pesky EU people expect us to buy their motor vehicles and all the rest. Open up your trade barriers, or don't try to preach to us.

No free speech in Indonesia I am afraid. Try and say what you truly think of religion and you'll be strung up or locked up.

If Mr Howard had gassed thousands of Australians and treated them like Saddam treated his people, no doubt the Aussies would have strung him up too.

@Alan,

1) <<No. The figures quoted re Liberia, Kenya, Tunisia and the others were specifically for ‘Refugees recognised and resettled’ >>

And that is perhaps why you got it wrong!

The Refugee Council’s document does not talk about those countries *RESETTLING* refugees, it hedges and fudges and uses weasel phrases like:
i) ““some of the world’s poorest nations...welcoming people seeking asylum”
ii) “the largest numbers were received by nations”
iii) “Number of refugees hosted”
iv) “Number of refugees protected”

Then it leaves it up to naïve journos & advocates who don’t check their facts to draw the (wrong) conclusions.

The words “hosted: “received” and “protected” are not the same as RESETTLED, with full & permanent citizenship rights!
And “welcoming” in this context means they are allowed across the border but confined to a border camp or nearby slum.
(Strangely enough to the Refugee Council that is seen as “welcoming”, but our detention centres which by comparison are five star hotels are portrayed as cruel--go figure!)

Rather than rote-copy the press release of the Refugee Council –whose sole role in life is to propagandize for bigger and bigger refugee intakes.You would have been much better informed had you looked-up our own DIAC sources: http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/pdf/A_New_Life_3.pdf

DIAC would have told you (without the fudging & weasel words) that “ Australia is one of only 10 countries which RESETTLE refugees and people in humanitarian need each year”.And funnily enough, none of your exemplary countries appear on that list of 10!

2) <<@SPQR: You show links to four Muslims of dubious character. A quick google search yields about 44 names of Moslems making highly positive contributions in Australia>>

Do the maths again Alan.

This link alone talks of *DOZENS* of young jihadis returning to fight for al-Shabaab ( how did you ever get it down to “four”?)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/somalia-jihad-drive-probed/story-e6frg6of-1111115033793

And for every capt Emad that we detect (I use the word detect since nothing is done to boot them out!) you can rest assured there'll be hundreds of others who we never know about.

PS: It wasn't about catching *Muslims* out --only conmen & their helpers.

Good morning,

Thanks again.

@Kactuz, I'm guessing you're too young to remember the Catholic/Protestant sectarian bitterness that once divided Australia.

Just change Moslem for Catholic, Islam for the Vatican, infidel for non-Catholic and Prophet for the Pope:

“As to Catholics being outstanding citizens. Yes, it's possible – except Catholics will say one thing around non-Catholics, and another among themselves. They are afraid to challenge the Vatican. They will not criticize anything about the Vatican or their dear Pope, no matter how vile … This means they will not change.”

Identical sentiments throughout history, Kactuz, whenever dearly-held ideologies have clashed. Clashes nearly always occur when one ideology seeks to denigrate or destroy the other. Usually characterised by both sides exaggerating the other’s evils.

Seems endemic in human nature. But history also shows it’s possible to find respectful dialogue – and then forge constructive collaboration, despite significant differences and a history of conflict.

So, Kactuz, how did you go with the earlier questions:

“Kactuz, have you pondered the number of times Christian countries – USA, Britain, Australia and others – have invaded Muslim nations since WWII in the quest for oil, other resources or political dominance? And how many Christian countries Muslim nations have invaded in that time? Are there valid reasons for what appears to be Muslim hostility?”

@Chris Lewis: Yes, there are no-go areas in France. But not many. Some factors contributing go beyond the current subject. But two factors discussed here seem relevant:

France has accepted far more refugees than it can comfortably manage partly because many other countries that can accept more have refused to do so.

France has about one sixth the arable land of Australia but three times the population. France has much higher unemployment, lower economic growth, less favourable terms of trade, higher debt and much less successful economic management overall.

The French are entitled to ponder why they have resettled nine times more refugeees than Australia has. No?

The second factor to have been confirmed here, Chris, is that hatred, prejudice and racism still flourish.

Back later with further responses.

Cheers, AA.