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The Forum > Article Comments > Why the UN Security Council seat matters to Australia and the world > Comments

Why the UN Security Council seat matters to Australia and the world : Comments

By Ordan Andreevski, published 3/7/2012

On balance, Australia should have a reasonably good chance of being elected to the UN Security Council when one considers the profile and credentials of some past and current non-permanent members.

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Looks like Gillard just tossed this process and millions spent by Labor in the toilet when she snubbed the AU invitation that the dept of foreign affairs had been working on for years.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/rebuff-to-africa-may-backfire-on-gillard-in-un-vote-20120702-21deq.html
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 12:02:56 PM
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What a total, absolute waste of money! If ever anyone needed an excuse to engage in tax avoidance, this is it. Hopefully Romney will be elected in november, and eliminate funding to the UN as part of his budget balancing exercise (which would include cutting out foreign aid as well). In these hard times charity begins at home, and it would be good to see most of the east coast parasites that currently receive enormous tax-free salaries lining up at soup kitchens. If any small amount of this money ever reached people in need there might be some degree of justification, but as usual almost all of it goes to fat cats who live on the hog on the backs of everyone else.
Posted by plerdsus, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 4:09:02 PM
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I thought Julia pulling out of the UN campaign and not wasting any more money the first intelligent thing her government has done.
Posted by EQ, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 7:44:40 PM
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The attempt at world governance in the form of the United Nations has been a dismal failure.
I can’t think of one war or massacre that it has managed to stop from happening. Sure it has gone in after the fact with thousands dead and left in refugee camps. Too late to save those lives.

Millions of people in the world are refugees forced by violence (as well as famine)to flee their homes and land.
Still people write these articles as though a world government like the UN will work when it has been a dismal failure.

The West’s involvement in the United Nations has cost the West dearly, in young soldiers lost not to mention the billions of dollars poured into these peace missions. As well as world aid.

I think the West, Europe and Australia would do much better if they abandoned the United Nations and simply defended and looked after their own people first. You can’t change the world or the nature of the human species, it’s like believing in fairies to think you can.
Posted by CHERFUL, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 8:37:16 PM
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Well said EQ, the best thing we can do is to stay well away from ALL things UN. Pull the pin I say.
Posted by spindoc, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 7:10:43 AM
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Do we want to be ruled by the UN's one world Govt that has no democracy?
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 7:51:54 AM
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If no UN, what then?
Posted by JF Aus, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 8:59:05 AM
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The UN is not a government. It is where countries agree to abide by certain rules, and where agreements and disputes can be negotiated.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 11:54:24 AM
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Shadow Minister-I take your point that the United Nations does not govern these countries on a day to day basis but;

The fact that the United Nations can send troops into any country in the world to enforce their rulings and dictates, makes them as close to a world government as we are likely to have at this present time. This is an experiment and history will judge the success or failure of it.

How would the course of History have played out if there had been a United Nations to take Julius Caesar, William the Conqueror, the leader of the Ottoman Empire, Genghis Khan, the
Leaders of the Scottish Clans who were always at war with the other clans to an international Law court, the history of the world would have been entirely different and who knows what the effects would have been on today’s world.

There is a documentary on TV at the moment on how the country of Wales was founded on bloody tribal warfare. What would be the nature of Wales today if those tribal leaders had been taken to world law courts and imprisoned. I’m not condoning the bloodshed, but it seems strange to me how people look up to some of these people like Julius Ceasar and the muslim Warlord, Mohammed, whereas today they want them imprisoned by world Law courts. We tend to think of these old warlords today as great warriors and leaders of men.

Maybe we will gradually evolve to a less warlike species and the fact that we are trying is admirable. In doing so are we in some way changing the course of history in ways that we cannot know or forsee.
Posted by CHERFUL, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 9:49:43 PM
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Cherful the UN has not done anything useful in the world since 1952 & the Korean war. Even there I'm not too sure what its involvement was useful.

You only have to look at their ineffectual waffling during the Bosnian trouble, & their equally useless carry on in Syria today to see that it is a complete waste of time & money.

The absence of the UN would be a greater asset than its existence.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 4 July 2012 11:56:10 PM
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Hasbeen, do you suggest leave the local Australian and international incidents to the media to report and influence action on, instead of the UN?

Without UNESCO, destruction of the Great Barrier Reef would be guaranteed together with virtually complete devastation of the last SW Pacific Ocean food web ecosystems. SW Pacific ecosystems are supposed to feed feed ocean fish that migrate and sustain island people, island people already involved in now chronic poverty and unrest and loss of peace in OUR region.

Without the UN, media could whip up more spin to send more 'defence forces' and 'police' to watch over distant poppies in Afghanistan and to control all Middle East oil.

Look at the local media waffle and gagging of genuine science that has created law based on lies and spin that is now a carbon tax, a new tax with no mention of inflation already occurring as result.

Without the UN the media could turn a blind eye to more offshore Australian offshore trade such as food for oil deals with dictators.

As for who is wasting money just look locally, look at the NBN $30 billion plus, for what national or international benefit? What does it matter if money is wasted at home or overseas? Still wasted.

As for who is at fault, Google UN World Environment Day 2004. Note the focus on oceans, then web search for that focus in Australian media and governments records. Not there. All covered up. The UN tried, Aus locals failed on purpose.

If the UN had adequate resources and international teamwork then surely outcome would improve.
Posted by JF Aus, Thursday, 5 July 2012 10:19:48 AM
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To hold a seat within the UN would not do any harm to Australias ability to positively influence world affairs. Although this will obviously be very limited, it has to be better that barking from a distance. I am in favour of anything that makes our country a more influential voice on a global scale.

In regards to the Macedonia issue, this is a disgrace! How can we deny a nation the right to name it self? Could you imagine Australia being told to change its name? It is unthinkable at best and unstabilising at worst. The Australian government really needs to take a good hard look at itself and this shameful, 20 year old policy!
Posted by ROB p, Thursday, 5 July 2012 11:33:59 AM
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ROB p with this current Oz government, I definitely don't want us to have influence on world affairs, through the UN or any other way.

Hell, they can do enough damage here, without it going any further. It is because idiots like our Julia, & tinpot dictators have too much input now, that I would shut the UN down, in the fastest way possible.

JF Aus are you suggesting we could see the UN do something useful in world affairs. Something like the great work they are doing right now in Syria I suppose. They would probably get some of their monkeys like that Kofi bloke to moan on TV & tell some one how bad they are.

The Great Barrier Reef will do a lot better if we stop wasting money on grandstanding World Heritage monkeys from the UN. I'm sure they don't know as much about the reef as AIMS, the Marine Park Authority, & James Cook uni, & all them together know a damn sight less than the average reef fisherman out of Mackay.

If you believe even 10% of the garbage coming out of the UN, you are a very naive little Ozzie.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 5 July 2012 2:57:42 PM
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Hasbeen, a long term friend said to me recently that we were lucky to see the GBR the way it was, meaning back in the 1960's. These days I think the only hope the GBR has is through UNESCO action on the massive destruction of GBR food web ecosystem nurseries in the estuaries, especially at Gladstone.

Do you think AIMS and the Marine Park Authority & James Cook uni know about the bent GBRMPA boundary around Gladstone that allows legal dredging of Gladstone seagrass habitat?
Damage at Gladstone was done and underway before UNESCO became aware of the situation and came to see it.

How is it possible organizations push for offshore ocean marine parks and no take zones and protected areas, yet say nothing about devastation of most seagrass nurseries that are supposed to provide small fish to feed ocean animals?
Unprecedented marine animal starvation has even been occurring in GBR and east coast waters.

What I believe is what I see with my own eyes or learn through honest non political knowledge including from expert fishermen.
Fishermen do not fish for seagrass.
Long term general underwater observation categorically reveals sewage nutrient pollution proliferating algae smothering seagrass and coral, the latter then bleaching, now strangely attributed to CO2.

Ocean dead zones are increasing in number and size and occurrence worldwide, coinciding with more people.

Does anybody know if AGW and Kyoto science has measured and assessed photosynthesis-linked warmth in ocean algae plant matter? Surely someone on OLO has courage to face that single question and answer it.

The UN has been conned about CO2, so have Australians.
There is no 10%. Damage is either from sewage or CO2. Accordingly, WHAT solutions are needed?
Considering the damage and devastation in the name of development at Gladstone and proposed elsewhere on the GBR lagoon coast, the silence from AIMS and James Cook and GBRMPA ‘experts’ is absolutely extraordinary.

As for UN action and Syria, how many of the dead were killed by rebels, terrorists, gangs?
Is Assad guilty or are rebels? Who is arming rebels and gangs?
Posted by JF Aus, Thursday, 5 July 2012 7:41:14 PM
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Yes, the GBR the way is was.
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/qld/content/2012/07/s3540412.htm

Australian politicians have no right to a UN Security Council seat due to their track record ignoring ocean food devastation and resulting unrest amongst people of the previously idyllic Pacific Islands.

Food security, regional security, political security. Guess the focus of politicians.

No wonder this world is in such a mess.
Posted by JF Aus, Friday, 6 July 2012 8:22:32 PM
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JF Aus, have you ever seen the reef? If so how much. You sound as if you think it's something you could stick in Sydney harbour.

The little bit off Gladstone is useful for Gladstone tourism, but it is a mere drop as far as the reef goes.

Have you ever been out to the Swains, had a look at the hard line? If not I suggest you do, so you can get some perspective into your thinking.

I also suggest you go have a look at the idyllic Pacific islands. You should have a chat to a few old hands while you're at it. Anyone who can call them idyllic has rose coloured glasses welded on. Living on one was a tough gig.

The fact that they have had a population explosion on many of them is causing more problems than any white man.

I see from your link, the academics are still using the ABC to push their funding desires. You surely can't still believe anything they push can you? How many times can these people predict the destruction of the reef yet again, & still get a run at the ABC
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 7 July 2012 1:33:27 AM
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Has been, you be the judge on what I may have seen and heard during a lifetime of underwater and ocean experience.

Modesty aside I have been towed feet first backwards about 3 metres underwater for a total distance of about 400 nautical miles along the outer edge of the GBR while filming giant black marlin attacking and feeding. I was inside a giant lure designed to attract the animal. So I have seen the GBR, yes?

Sydney Harbour and sewage nutrient pollution loaded fresher-water water flows in the east Australia sediment dispersal system to Cape York, past Gladstone where dredged nutrient loads are presently adding to the total load. It is the overload of nutrients that is causing problems such as feeding algae smothering seagrass on which small fish depend on which birds and whales and ocean fish depend.

Hervey Bay and Gladstone waters have been a major feeding ground as deeper ocean waters reach into actual coastal waters right there, just south of where the GBR lagoon begins. In 2000 when the world’s 24 million population of Short-tailed Shearwater mutton birds arrived at that feeding ground many were unable to find adequate food, many then continued south to other feeding grounds, mass mortality of those birds then occurred along coastline extending from Rockhampton to South Australia and around Tasmania. Wildlife experts in 4 states were shocked by severity of the mortality. So Gladstone is not just for tourism.

These days whale calves re being abandoned, like cows abandon their calves when impacted by starvation.

(continued at next post - perhaps worthwhile)
Posted by JF Aus, Saturday, 7 July 2012 3:07:23 PM
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Continued……

As for knowledge of the Swain Reefs, in the 60’s I once guided wealthy US divers exploring the world underwater. We ran aground in the Swains, so I have really close experience with the Swain Reefs.

Diving and underwater film production has led to various Pacific Islands and in 1973 I chatted to an old Laulasi Island (Malaita) shark worship priest who told me the lower human leg is the tastiest part. I agree older people have had considerable experience.

In 1982 I learned Laulasi – Langa Langa Lagoon people suffer malnutrition due to traditional baitfish supply devastation. Yes it’s a tough gig there now but was not previously.
The change in my opinion based on evidence, is nutrient laden ocean current nutrient pollution PLUS local nutrient pollution, due to the entire Asia Pacific human population explosion.

Yes the ABC and their academic only-in-the-books ‘knowledge’. Add greed and CO2 and acidic acid spin and accordingly damage and consequences continue because solutions to nutrient pollution is not being addressed.

I suggest put destruction of the GBR aside and consider destruction of sustainable world ocean food supply is one of the major problems.

Hungry people experience irritation. Fighting and recrimination and civil unrest develops. Academics blame ethnic tension or religious intolerance or terrorism etc.

Real causes such as food and land shortage are ignored including by UN Security Council aspirant Mr Rudd who I tried so hard to reach and inform, to no avail
Posted by JF Aus, Saturday, 7 July 2012 3:08:39 PM
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In that case JF you know how most of our so called marine research is conducted in a tank out the back of the office. You don't get sea sick in the office.

You'll also know that most of anything that could be called "ocean research" is conducted with in spitting distance of one of 2 establishments on reef islands, so researched out, that most of it is as a swimming pool.

These places where researcher people can talk rubbish to each other, & pretend they are doing something.

Part of the problem is population, but part, even from the early post WW11 era, is that the people are no longer enough for their lifestyle of the past. They no longer make larger canoes, & have lost much of their navigation skills, or their courage.

I have escorted fleets of canoes in the Solomons on traditional fishing/gathering voyages they no longer make without help. I have also assisted in "bride raids" which no longer happen, with the obvious result in the gene pool.

I have also seen a hundred canoes pulled up on an atoll beach, where in the 70s there would have been no more than a dozen. This increase in canoes was reflected in a similar increase in housing.

Yes it is a pity we waste our research dollar in such useless areas, when there is much real stuff to do.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 7 July 2012 7:54:49 PM
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Yes Hasbeen and you aptly describe the so called 'research' and people I am up against with my long term experience in the real world and no academic qualification.

What get's me is that solutions involve opportunities with various and interesting win-win outcome for all.

Never give up and take every opportunity and finish the task started, and if there is a problem then fix it, has all come from my mentor's. Thus my dropping in on OLO from time to time as thread subject permits.

So much is being lost yet so much could be gained, including via various viable business and employment in new industry regenerating the environment instead of destroying it.

But they focus on an NBN so people can see their doctor, while a CO2 tax is imposed to top up their coffers, resulting in no new export productivity whatsoever.

Peace and security is really under threat more than ever worldwide as more and more people become desperate affording available food and shelter.

I hope the UN can comprehend and sort out the nonsense from reality before too late.

Have a good weekend.
Posted by JF Aus, Saturday, 7 July 2012 9:23:10 PM
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