Atman, "Its a political and social assault meant to diminish the power of the what the Left see as Conservatives in society, nothing more."

I come at it from a different angle, I'm nominally to the right of politics and see it largely as an issue of christian fundies trying to impose their views on others lives. Something that's just as offensive to me as left wing moralists trying to impose their views on society.

I get the impression that the legal benefits of marriage are nominal (and could be dealt with by other means) but the straw man arguments and deceits used by the church and others to oppose gay (and lesbian) marriage make the issue more than it might otherwise be.

I don't see the churches and conservative christains putting much if any effort into reform of things that do real harm to families and those left after family breakup.

I consider the dysfunctional nature of our so called child support system and the motivation it provides for conflict between parents to be a massively greater threat to children from separated families than the possibility of small numbers of same sex couples getting married and a smaller number of then having children which they would not have had without the married status yet most of those opposed to same sex marriage seem to show no interest in that topic.

The evidence is very clear that kids from broken homes with parental conflict have a far greater risk of negative outcomes than kids from stable homes yet the protect the kids emphasis is on same sex couples not the cause of a lot of post separation parental conflict.

R0bert

Hi Rhian,

Here in France, Allan Tulchin researched mediaeval brother-making rituals. He wrote in the September 2007 Journal of Modern History that Christian ceremonies joined unrelated same-gender couples in lifelong unions which raised family, held property jointly, and were virtually equivalent to marriages.

Tulchin claims "considerable evidence that the affrèrés were using affrèrements to formalize same-sex loving relationships ... I suspect some of these relationships were sexual, while others may not have been. It is impossible to prove either way and probably also somewhat irrelevant to understanding their way of thinking."

The most thorough and credible research was done by Yale University’s controversial Professor John Boswell before his death in 1994.

"As late as the eleventh and twelfth centuries, there appears to be no conflict between a Christian life and homosexuality," Boswell wrote. "Gay life is everywhere in the art, poetry, music, history, etc. of the 11th and 12th centuries. The most popular literature of the day, even heterosexual literature, is about same¬sex lovers of one sort or another. Clerics were at the forefront of this revival of the gay culture."

Saint Aelred in the 12 century was a Cistercian abbot who incorporated his love for men into his devotional life by encouraging monks to love each other, "individually and passionately"!

Also Sergius and Bacchus, Patriarch Thomas and Theodore of Sykeon, and Polyeuct and Nearchos. Easily googled.

Randolph Trumbach of Baruch College claims "the Christian tradition on homosexual behavior has not been the same in all times and places," and "the Christian tradition has in some times and places blessed sexual relations between males."

William Eskridge of Yale Law School writes that "in the early Middle Ages the Church developed institutions - memorialized in liturgies that were included in the Church's formal collections - that combined the Church's spiritual commitment to companionate relationships with its members' desire to bond with people of the same sex.”

Documents exist showing Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox rituals of "brother-making," "enfraternization," and "spiritual brotherhoods."

These early brotherhood liturgies appear virtually identical to liturgies later developed by the Church for different-sex marriages.

Sexual orientation is mostly "hard wired" so in most cases we have as much control over who or what we are attracted to as we do over the colour of our eyes. How we act on our urges is of course a different matter.

God doesn't 'hate' homosexuals. The acts of sodomy and bestiality are however listed as 'abominations' in the old Testament. Fornication and adultery are big no nos also. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone .... Basically what happens between consenting adults in private is really no-one's business - or responsibility but theirs.

Nevertheless I don't support 'gay marriage rights'. I do support the same legal rights for same sex couples as enjoyed by hetero de facto couples. Marriage, the formal agreement under law, is between a man and woman. I am also highly skeptical of claims that 60% of Australians favour same sex marriage. within my circle of family and friends, the figure would be closer to 6%. Most of my family and friends have religious beliefs of some kind but the absence of does not equate to gay marriage support by any reckoning. I do not support adoption of children by same sex couples barring certain circumstances within families. I am also over the whole "I'M GAY & PROUD OF IT" thing. It's as distasteful as any other sort of overt public flaunting, not to mention the idiocy of defining oneself by ones sexualit

Thanks WmTrevor and Alan - some excellent sources and ideas there

I think it's pretty fair to say that the Church of Scotland hasn't been a "conservative denomination" in decades. And most CoS ministers and elders would affirm that.

Yes Alan, in the future people may look back at our current generation of church leaders also noting the promotion of homosexuality in the church.

Peter warned about these things in the second chapter of his second letter:

"But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed." (2 Peter 2:1-2)

Readers should not be deceived into thinking that God approves of sexual immorality. But he does forgive sinners who repent.