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The Forum > Article Comments > The religion shaped hole in society: a personal reflection > Comments

The religion shaped hole in society: a personal reflection : Comments

By Simon Mundy, published 27/4/2012

Christianity has been the focus and font of moral and ethical judgements.

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Good article, sadly misinterpreted by so many. A pity that we can't all look beyond our biases and prejudices for the essence of truth.

Regrettable also that the author's 'Kingdom of Life' remains a distant and rapidly diminishing vision - perhaps another two or three 'evolutions' of the species, say through another million years or so, may enable a reversal of the downward spiral; that is, if the world is not already a bed of ashes by then. Knowledge has not begot wisdom, so it would seem.
Posted by Saltpetre, Sunday, 29 April 2012 2:37:50 AM
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Dear Simon
Do you think you could manage to re-write your article so that it spoke in my voice? It could then be the best thing I've ever written.
Posted by GlenC, Sunday, 29 April 2012 10:54:11 AM
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runner: I respect religion...but once an aggressive zealot IDs themselves they are fair game. Corruption cloaked in supernatural goodness is not, and must not be immune to rational criticism!
Remember you are an un-believer in Gods except for one little exception...and you use this to judge others *despite* explicit instructions of your prophet/God not to do so!
When Christians get back to compassion and discovery of Gods works instead of conservative morality, tribal politics and systematic ignorance (based on "ignore"...the opposite of science) then I'll happily commend them.
Posted by Ozandy, Monday, 30 April 2012 8:57:07 AM
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Morality comes from the need to help the species. If religion were the moral and ethical authority that people like to believe it is then, what of the animal kingdom?

If a chimp were to kill a fellow chimp in its own group the murderer would be ostracized and left to die as it is a detriment to the survival of the group. Murder doesn't help the human species so we make a law that says you go to gaol if you murder someone, stealing from another is a detriment so it's no wonder why we made a law saying it is wrong to steal.

All these simple things have been around for thousands of years before religion was even a twinkle in the eye of humanity, We've gone from worshiping the sun to Ra, Krishna, Yahweh, Zeus, Thor, Apollo, Jesus et al. All these gods/religions have in common is that they all say not to do things we instinctively know not to do anyway, but just back it up with a threat.
Posted by Lurchi, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 7:21:00 AM
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Dear Lurchi,

Is it moral to blindly follow the dictates of a tyrant?

Both humans and chimps are constantly whipped by a tyrant - the swarm of genes within our body. Those genes are selfish, only caring about reproducing themselves as long as possible.

If it happens that killing a member of one's own tribe is bad for the genes, then the genes tell their human or their chimp 'Don't do it', but if it happens that killing the next-door tribe with slightly different genes is good for them, then they command their human or their chimp to kill. Similarly, those genes instruct us to gather in groups and establish a social order which includes laws in their favour.

Those genes often lead us to despair, feel helpless and believe that we have no free choice, saying "I only followed orders" - but that's a lie: we may not be able to do much at a time, but within that Pandora's box we also have a free choice.

Once intellect is sufficiently developed, the genes lure us to treat them as gods - to shape god's image in the likes of the genes.

True religion tells us that the genes are not God, instead that they are demons and that by our free will we can and should overcome their influence over us.

There seems to be an overlap between religious morality and protecting the species, but it is a superficial one: from a religious perspective, it isn't immoral to kill or to steal - but it is immoral to kill or steal for selfish reasons, in the service of our genes. For those of us with lower discrimination who have become selfish due to years of conditioning to serve our genes, religion simplifies "Thou shalt not kill", but for those of us who are past that stage, who are more discerning and less selfish, simplified rules do not apply.

The golden rule states: "What you hate being done to you, don't do unto others": If still, out of gene-slavery you're afraid to be killed - then don't kill others.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 8:50:57 AM
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Ozandy

'When Christians get back to compassion and discovery of Gods works instead of conservative morality, tribal politics and systematic ignorance (based on "ignore"...the opposite of science) then I'll happily commend them.'

I suspect your excuses are simply a way of maintaining your self righteousness.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 9:52:36 AM
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