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The Forum > Article Comments > Finkelstein, free speech and the global warming debate > Comments

Finkelstein, free speech and the global warming debate : Comments

By Anthony Cox, published 8/3/2012

Why would Ray Finkelstein think that his News Media Council should have anything to do with global warming claims?

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"Never mind the entire Climate-gate email saga was shown, by three independent investigations, to be untrue."

Completely wrong as this shows:

http://www.thegwpf.org/images/stories/gwpf-reports/Climategate-Inquiries.pdf

"As someone working in a marine science field, I can see the evidence of ‘Climate Change’ and yes human impacts are a major factor."

Well, don't keep the evidence to yourself, let's see it.
Posted by cohenite, Thursday, 8 March 2012 12:22:08 PM
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Geoff of Perth

Again you have been caught out making completely untrue statements, notably this one.

"Never mind the entire Climate-gate email saga was shown, by three independent investigations, to be untrue."

No inquiry found any such thing. What the inquiries looked at was whether there was anything to prosecute or charge the various individuals involved with, or was there any breech of university guidelines and so on .. There obviously wasn't as none of it involved criminal or regulatory matters..

No one ever denied that the emails were authentic or that they showed some bad behaviour on the part of the scientists involved - a point you want to bear in mind.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Thursday, 8 March 2012 12:59:34 PM
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Cohenite you have obviously made up your mind.

How about, increasing ocean acidification due to inputs from pollutants from fossil fuels, too many references to mention.

increasing ocean temperatures, i.e. energy, resulting in sea level rise.

unprecedented Arctic ice melt with direct correlation to increased snow and colder weather in northern hemisphere locations.

I could go on and on, but why bother when you obviously don't want to see or hear the evidence that is available.
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Thursday, 8 March 2012 1:05:02 PM
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Anthony. It is a pleasure to read a thoughtfull piece devoid of the standard 'ad hominim' attacks that make this issue so tiresome.
Toynbee. Like you, I am a professional but without a professional science background and, like you, have experience in being required to research and read complex text and draw conclusions based on an array of data, experience and understandings presented in papers with disparate conclusions on particular matters.
I would propose that you are very much in a position to question/argue/debate climate scientists at a variety of technical levels.
It is frustrating when the likes of you and I, having read an array of material, often seemingly contradictory, are told to exclude ourselves from the conversation because we are not 'climate scientists'. (is there as yet such a thing as a 'climate scientist'?)
As you say, how certain is the science, at this stage, to make decisions of this magnitude? Where is the 'cost benefite analysis' that concludes that a carbon tax set at the current level, producing a virtually unmeasurable reduction in emissions in 100 years time (T. Flannery) is a 'good deal' for Australians.
For us to have alternative views censored by government is an appalling state for our democracy to descend to.
Posted by Prompete, Thursday, 8 March 2012 1:22:09 PM
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Geoff,

I have not closed my mind and would be happy to discuss any of the ostensible examples/proofs of AGW you list. In respect of the first, ocean acidification, perhaps you would care to read this overview by professor Brice Bosnich who does not think acidification is occurring:

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/11/the-chemistry-of-ocean-ph-and-acidification/

Alternatively you may care to consider this line of argument which notes the term is NOT acidification but slightly LESS alkalinity and that even if this does occur, which it doesn't appear to be doing at the present, it may have more benefits than disadvantages:

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/09/ocean-acidification-a-little-bit-less-alkalinity-could-be-a-good-thing/

I have deliberately linked to Jo Nova even though both threads are by other experts and feature extensive peer reviewed references. I have done this to see if all you come back with is some ad hom against Jo Nova instead of looking at the scientific literature and applying your scientific training to that literature.
Posted by cohenite, Thursday, 8 March 2012 1:41:15 PM
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Tombee is right, the article makes some very good points about Finkelstein’s attack on free speech that are valid irrespective of whether you agree with Cox or not on climate change (I don’t). The idea that committees of lawyers and academics should determine what we read in the stuff of totalitarianism, however good and wise we hope our dictators will be.

Yes, the press can be awful – biased, inaccurate, manipulative and sensational. The best corrective for this is for them to slog it out with other voices in the marketplace of ideas.
Posted by Rhian, Thursday, 8 March 2012 3:36:05 PM
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