If I want healing, I'll go to a doctor.

If I want to pay for love, I'll go to Kings Cross.

If I want to pay for love, I'll go to Kings Cross.
Jon J,
I can't tell from your post if you're brilliant in sarcasm or a total failure in understanding.
Please elaborate, thank you.

I have no personal animosity to the concept of complementary and alternative medicine, in exactly the same way that I have no personal animosity towards the concept of the power of prayer in the process of healing. However, they both - for me at least - fall into the same category as sky-diving or bungee-jumping: mostly harmless, but not something in which I would voluntarily participate.

People who have done either or both (sky-diving and bungee-jumping, that is) tell me tales of how unbelievably cathartic it is, how "liberated" they felt while in free-fall, and how their lives were oh-so-much richer for the experience.

And hey, I believe them.

But as far as our education system is concerned, I'd put the value of a university course in complementary and alternative medicine at precisely the same level as sky-diving and bungee-jumping.

That's not to say, of course, that we will not soon see university degrees awarded for bungee-jumping - heck, there are some pretty wacky degrees out there already - and if it helps the kids to "get a job", then that is a reflection of the realities of the world we have created, not the university.

Altogether a fascinating article, and one I will probably read again when I really feel desperately sad about the inanity that seems to be the new societal norm. But I will still probably gag at this:

"I can back up the data with personal experiences using prayer in Christian Science for healthcare"

Of course you can. And most of them will say "well, we tried. But God must have been busy somewhere else that day."

Unfortunately for the author, research has indeed been conducted on the efficacy of prayer in healing.

It showed that those who were being prayed for, and knew they were being prayed for, actually had worse health outcomes than control groups.

Perhaps there is a God, and he just hates prayer groups?

As one who has had a similar "near death" experience as Kerry Packer, in one of the very few ways I agree with him, there is nothing there.

The whole premise of this article is arrant nonsense, especially when it becomes clear that this is from a "Christian Scientist" follower.

There are many surprising things that happen in the healing process, but the one commonality is that it is the body itself which does the healing and that conventional medicine's role is to facilitate this. I suppose that allows space for CAM procedures, so long as they only soothe the mind of the patient.

As for me, I'll stick to proper scientific medicine thanks.

'I have no personal animosity to the concept of complementary and alternative medicine'

How could one hold animosity towards such an amusing concept.

Sure thinking positively works up to a point, no matter how far fethed the reasons.

In the end we all know when it comes to something like cancer, only 'fighters' survive and are 'heros', and anyone who 'lets it beat them' is a wimpy loser.

Just like anyone who has just died is an alround good guy who lived for their family.

'And hey, I believe them.'

I don't. I have done both too. It was a rush of adrenalin and I was high for hours after, I even scored that night, but have no desire to do it again, a pretty poor advertisment for something supposedly life-changing.

I actually think there should be a university degree in cricket. Such an intricate game with so many social, philospohical and moral parallels to everyday life, there would barely be enough time to cover an adequate curriculum.

Swing bowling 101, 201, 301 core units

Spin Bowling core units 101, 102, 201, 202, 301, 302 would barely
cover even a basic understanding. Perhaps it should be covered in a doctorate.

Captaincy fundamentals, and the inconsitency, duplicity, grandstanding and hypocracy of Ian Chappel.

Mental Fragility, Sledging and playing the race card

ICC Politics

Record Accumulation vs Aggression and entertaining the crowds

Cricket Statistics, and the science of comparing records of players from different eras.

Pitch reading and preparation

Captain Cranky's vs Metrosexual Cliche Masters

Style vs substance

Marking time before the new ball, tempting fate against the provocation of part-timer bowlers and ego management and manipulation

The psychology of becoming a rabble in the field and body language.

The cycles of form, media and public perception and chance.

Flat track bullies, and the days before helmets, roped-in outfields and 2 inch thick bats.

The abomination that is Twenty20; The corruption of purity, human rights of bowlers, the general desecration of the spiritual world by the fast media money and entertainment of the unwashed.

OUG, is that you?

I do agree with you about 20/20. It's no more than tipsy-run on a big field.

"The field of spirituality is the newest frontier in medicine."

No, actually it's one of the oldest – back when humans required between 18 and 24 live births per hundred just to maintain a stable population level because the paediatric death toll was so high and such a small proportion of people lived to childbearing age.

The survival rates for humans – or the reduced death rates if you prefer – for the past several generations had nothing to do with alternative medicine.

The only advantage I see to the adoption of so-called 'Christian science' approaches to health care is the irreducible argument that all the negative outcomes are because it was God's will. This will save a fortune on M and M conferences.

Now on to more important topics… The appreciation of Houllebecq's ball handling skills.

So sorry to hear that, Houellebecq.

>>I even scored that night, but have no desire to do it again<<

Go on, give it another shot. You won't regret it.

Ha when I re-read that I knew you'd pick it up Pericles. Not that you're predictable or anything.

I suppose it's good to know you're reading. In addition to saying you read English at Oxbridge, you can say you read Houellebecq at OLO.

Clownfish, can you reference that research? I've got some friends that would get a real kick out of that!

Certainly:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16569567

'CONCLUSIONS:
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.'

How can that be of good, when some don't allow transfusions.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that our mental/emotional/spiritual wellbeing influences our physical condition and progress in recovery from illnesses. To the extent that people might believe that complementary medicines, homeopathy etc will make them better, it might even boost their recovery – the placebo effect is well-documented.

I’d also agree that the focus of some health care is shifting from the physical cause and treatment of ailments to the needs and circumstances of the patient. Good.

But this is no basis for endorsement of BS like iridology and homeopathy which make pseudo-scientific claims about their effectiveness which defy both credibility and evidence. Anything which claims to be medical “science” must stand or fall by the accepted criteria of scientific investigation. Most “alternative” medicines don’t – that’s why they are alternative.

Medicine and surgery don't have all the answers when it comes to effective and permanent healing. A spiritual approach has worked for me - if you have tried prayer before and it hasn't worked, investigate a new style of prayer which starts by being grateful for all the good that has come our way.

jimoctec,/quote..""As one..who has had a similar "near death" experience as Kerry Packer,..I agree with him,..there is nothing there.""

lol..you been to rome
and know it isnt there..

see the joke my beloved 'other'
first..you 'saw'..egsactly..what you expected to see
you expected nothing..so..*allowed yourself..to see nuthin

the spirit realm is much like anything else
if your not trying to hear..you cant listen
if your not looking..you cant see

if you dont know
what your looking at..your blind to seeing it as it is..

closed minds are dark minds
[and thats only a few reasons..why you saw nuthin]

others are[like pakker]..so dark in their souls
they awake in that dark place...others simply havnt taken their spirit eyes inputs..into their present awarness[yet]

often it takes sometime..to see/hear..with your spirit mind
the whole material mind needs be overcome...but then i guess your luckey..you didnt get the sleep mind imagry

that makes after life hellish
for far too many needlessly

some fall...and say im flying
others say im falling

yet others say
what my sight is seeing..is falling

yet when it's all falling together
we dont even know falling...cause nuthing is not falling

you seen nuthin
dont mean..nuthin was there to be seen
you just failed to see it

continued

""There are many surprising things..that happen in the healing process,..but the one commonality is..that it is the body itself which does the healing""

yes the body seems to heal itself
but the nature that heals is nurture
[good of god...what god does is sustain nature..into natural nurture]

ignore that science claims natural selection
as science selection..to refute god doing it naturally

BESIDES..placeobo..affect!
all medesine needs to is beat placeobo affect
to claim..it cures..lol..[but often medicin only cuts off the symptom...[and stop taking the medicine...the symprtom returns

often docters claim natures healing
as their own...[but they dont heal a bone..they hold it straight[and gods nature/nurture fixes it]

medisin cures a cold in 3 days
so does gods nurture

""and that conventional medicine's role..is to facilitate this.""

clever trick
claiming credit..for what it didnt actually 'do'

""so long as they only soothe the mind of the patient.""

yep
ya cant beat the simple things
cut out the vile..and hope it dont come back
[or heals straight]..

*docters cut..god heals their cuts
docters irradiate[kill]...gods good nurture heals
that docters kill/cut/poisend/mutilated..claim's

""I'll stick to proper
scientific medicine..thanks.""

no such thing
please give egsamples

what science..?
in what..specific medi-sin*..?

dont generalise..[thats why you wasted your chance to sureity]
and like sgt shuttze...your i
eye..see nuthing

i guess i should try
to explain...spirit seeing/hearing

see the rule is more[of the same]..will be given
[so first you 'see/hear'...in your mind
then all the.."more is a given'

but thats the difference
between seeing with your brain
and visualisation in ya mind..[your minds eye]

but its like trying to explain quantum physics to santa claws fans

you know its real...that changes
what you..seek to real-ise..

pearl before swine
but in the end..we all see
and that we thought valid..is revealed as invalide
built on feet of clay...foundations of sand...

as noted first
by those who dared ask...[i dont under stand]

please explain...why is it so?
in the spirit..that reply is instantly given

more of the same is a given
so dont love too narrow..and grow a narrow mind

broaden your mind...if you think that placeobo will cure you
in one third of the cases..[their belief in gods ultimate goodness..cure's them]..

till you see a better way..
the old narrow dont know different..ways
adults heal them selves..kids cry for mummies hugs
not docters injecting poisen...into a sterile world