Serves me right for invoking Monty Python, I guess...

My dear redneck/black knight,

Most of the arguments for and against 'race' as you know it are to be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race.

Read it and weep. Explore that section of the site - in fact, begin to explore the whole site, if you dare to have your mind opened.

You'll learn much. - whoops... there goes your left arm.

I point my private parts in your general direction :)

I have got you, haven't I? You are starting to squirm.

You are supposed to be debating with me and displaying through your presumed superior intellect the error of my neanderthal ways and the paucity of my low class opinions. Just saying to me "go and read a sociology book" or "read this web site and weep" is not good enough and it is clearly a last resort argument.

You will not state your own position because you know that it is indefensible. So you are busily chucking smelly red herrings around all over the place in order to keep me from following you into an area which you most definitely do not want to go.

Naturally, I will do the exact opposite.

State your position or admit defeat. Any impartial observer reading these posts can appreciate that it is fair and reasonable for me to ask you what your own position is, and ask you to explain why you regard that position as the correct one. If you refuse to answer, then they will conclude that you, yourself know that you position is untenable.

Yoo hoo, Scooper9, you had better come to the aid of your tag team mate very quickly because he is starting to get very shaky.

If you realise that your own position can not be be sustained in the face of reasoned debate, do you not have the courage to question your own values and attitudes on this matter? Pursuing a Quixotic cause that is based purely upon blind faith and a conviction that the real world must conform to how you think it should be, is not the position of an intelligent person who is capable of objective thought. Admitting privately to yourself that your fashionable cause may be wrong, and being honest enough with yourself to seek objective truth, come what may, is the first step to recifying that.

I wonder what redneck does for a job my bet is a parking attendant. He's got that cold irrational rage against the rest of the world fell about him that only a job like that can bring.

Kenny you give Redneck far too much credit. He probably works at a laundromat- whites only, no colors allowed there.

Redneck I'll debate you in the other forum and let you self destruct even further into a cesspool of idiocy and fallacies.

Redneck - all you've done is listed some 'racial' stereotypes based on a definition of 'race' derived from te Collins Dictionary. You've provided no further reliable evidence other than to claim that you have read 'The Bell Curve' and 'Guns, Germs and Steel', but your responses to subsequent comments indicate that, if you have indeed read those publications, then they've gone way over your head.

Your argument is now at the 'black knight' armless and legless stage of rolling around in the mud calling people names.

I think it's time for me to take my own advice about arguing with fools. There's really no chance of educating you, and it's becoming boring.

I hope professor Fraser saw the tv program on Aboriginal "Circle courts"this week on 'Four corners'. they have had great results in stopping repeat offences . its probably worth a try for other young offenders,of different racial groups judging on it's very high success rate .
i think that every council should have a panel of rainbow coloured people representing it's different ethnic groups who's sole purpose is to encourage harmony from the ground up and have the ability to expose and shame those bent on fomenting racial discrimation in their community .