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The Forum > Article Comments > War and shopping: the extremism that never speaks its name > Comments

War and shopping: the extremism that never speaks its name : Comments

By John Pilger, published 26/9/2011

As a new Westfield mega mall opens in time for the upcoming Olympics, what is the effect of such large-scale consumerism on society?

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Just google the Larry Silverstein/Frank Lowy partenership.There are a lot more questions to be answered there.
Posted by Arjay, Monday, 26 September 2011 8:22:51 AM
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John Pilger: Grim, Angry, yet so well travelled! Lucky bugger.

Material enslavement is actually a choice made John. People are free to not participate. Malls don't fit your nostalgic World view - strip shops on the High Street still significantly outnumber malls anyway - but they do provide an efficient and (shock, horror) even enjoyable distraction for some from the mundanities of life.

But I guess those folks just need to attend one of your dire lectures to shake that out of their systems.

Love the anti-semetic sub-text too. Damn those Lowys, Oi Vey!

See you at the barricades old bean.
Posted by bitey, Monday, 26 September 2011 9:48:35 AM
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“but they do provide an efficient and (shock, horror) even enjoyable distraction for some from the mundanities of life.”

In fact they are suffering from a terrible disease called “mallitis” and the only cure is a strong dose of retail therapy.
Posted by sarnian, Monday, 26 September 2011 10:01:02 AM
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Grotesque consumerism is not a recent phenomenon, as illustrated compellingly in William Leach's 'Land of Desire: Merchants, Power, and the Rise of a New American Culture'. While I share Mr Pilger's distaste and concern, I think the temptation to blame the state and class apartheid for the current state of affairs ought to be resisted. This is a social disease that afflicts rich and poor alike, and it would be more profitable to ask questions as to how consumerism has taken the place of community, civic duty, and religious devotion. Shopping has become a poor substitute for many things. While the political establishment may bear some responsibility, real change will only ever come from the grass roots. As long as protesters and rioters choose clothes, gadgets, and televisions over books and genuine political debate, state efforts for good or ill will be largely ineffective. Our governments merely reflect a wider social malaise, and until we persuade people of all sections of society to choose the responsibility of democratic freedom instead of the mind-numbing autocracy of consumerism, railing against the state is not only futile but hypocritical. When people act in concert, their power works as a counterweight to the force of tyranny, but when that power is relinquished the state will invariably take up the slack. Shopping malls reflect our choices, our priorities. Unless we consciously support independent retailers and avoid malls (as whole communities and not just individuals here and there), we only have ourselves to blame.
Posted by Mishka Gora, Monday, 26 September 2011 10:02:10 AM
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You say “The mega mall is the biggest in Europe”.

May be now, but a bigger one will be built in the next years and one bigger than the biggest will follow and so on, and when the space runs out, they’ll import some.

The Priests of the world better switch sides. There is more money in Sports than in Gods.

‘Don’t you worry about that’ used to say another import to your country, Mr. Pilger
Posted by skeptic, Monday, 26 September 2011 11:09:18 AM
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A (Western) world going mad with consumerism - obesity, suicide and road trauma, while the 'other half' have more to worry about - where to get their next meal. Thanks John for holding up a mirror for us yet again.

So what do we do about it? I try to watch my own footprint - boycott the 'lala land' mega shopping malls for a start. Spending time in my garden (lucky enough to have 1/4 acre still) is another therapy that costs nothing and actually produces a bit of fresh food. Used to love fishing but using 20 litres of fuel to catch 2 kg of fish doesnt wash any more.

What of the biggest challenge of all - the social one where we are reduced to isolated objects who are either better or worse (i.e. consume more or less, slot into higher lor lower paying jobs) than the next man? This is a harder one to crack.

I reckon it's a matter first knowing when enough is enough to spend on getting money and consuming. Then slowing down our interactions, just realizing that other people and nature are the real stuff of life and deciding to spend more time doing it.

The retail therapy is there but we don't have to partake - best thing to do with some things is ignore them. Roll on the recession (that means no or negative growth of GDP).I find recession times are actually good for our society. Maybe this one will even spur 'the masses' to political action - to reform taxes and make the mega rich pay back some of their plunder - or maybe things will have to get a lot worse yet.
Posted by Roses1, Monday, 26 September 2011 12:25:26 PM
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LOL This is one of the most ridiculously exaggerated and tangentially argued articles I have ever read about a visit to a mere shopping centre. Millions of people do it daily and don't feel nailed in by a terrifying ogre of forced consumerism. They buy what they want and then go home. But not Pilger. He flips into a mega rant about a Jewish owned consumerist megalith and David Cameron.

Pilger's bleating about simple mall of shops, is quite bizarre. He portrays it as an dangerous labyrinth, specifically designed to disorientate and extract money from the bewildered. I'm uncertain whether Pilger is an extreme Lefty who is squeezing every last drop out of his long exhausted anti-everything theory, or is acutely attuned to his conspiracy theorist audience who lap this stuff up. Regardless of the topic, he always manages to put a boot into the Jews or the Conservatives.

Next time, he should just follow the exit signs, like a normal person would. Its cheaper than buying a pair of sunglasses you don't really want.
Posted by Atman, Monday, 26 September 2011 12:58:44 PM
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Ah.. how refreshing; at times we tend to forget how imperfect the world really is on the outside: Until that is, John Pilger explodes another of his anti-capitalist hand grenades in our midst...I love it!
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 26 September 2011 7:42:58 PM
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Arjay, it is dangerous to shop in malls owned by Larry Silverman, he owns building 7, the one that he uttered the fateful words "PULL IT" to, and it came down immediately, amazing, controlled demos take a bit of setting up, it seems Larry had all his buidings wired for just such an event. Silverman and Lowy enemy of the people and greed driven individuals both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972ETepp4GI&NR=1
Posted by sonofgloin, Monday, 26 September 2011 8:14:55 PM
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Well I can relate to this.

For the past 6 months, I have spent time in and around a major expansion of a shopping centre, and this colossus will have a new food mall with seating for over 800 people, and there are also 2 other food malls in the place.

Of course the 4 biggest junk food franchises in Australia are to open new shops in the new food mall.

I know most of the other shops in the new expansion will also be franchise operations, and most of these will be foreign owned.

We live in a society that is a mixture of capitalism and feminism, and in this soulless and loveless society, the public have now become just pigs at the trough, but also the work animals on the farm.
Posted by vanna, Monday, 26 September 2011 8:19:22 PM
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Vanna:

Fortunately, the "mega" shopping malls become more and more an entertainment venue. Serious shopping can be achieved on-line or at the local CBD.
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 26 September 2011 8:33:58 PM
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and everyone truely revolted by these monstrocities can move to a small mining or rural towns screaming for workers. The latte mob love to complain but secretly love their comforts. No one is forcing anyone to live next to a big convenient shopping centre. I would imagine that many of those catching boats here can't wait for the opportunity to see so much choice available.
Posted by runner, Monday, 26 September 2011 8:39:05 PM
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Runner,
Much of the stuff in these shopping centers was made by poor people in other countries.

The poor make the stuff which, which is then sold for higher prices in countries such as ours.

This has been given various terms such as "free trade" or "globalisation"

But it is now starting to backfire.

As more countries go under, the rich can no longer buy much.
Posted by vanna, Monday, 26 September 2011 10:15:46 PM
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vanna you write

'Much of the stuff in these shopping centers was made by poor people in other countries.'

I am not sure what your point is. Surely the poor would like their stuff sold in order to improve their lives like millions in Asia have done.
Posted by runner, Monday, 26 September 2011 11:11:35 PM
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I too think consumerism has gone to far (by that I mean the Planet can't support the consumerism in which the majority of the West indulge) but I certainly don't blame Westfied for the greed of it's customers nor the Gov't for the greed of it's people.

I moved to a rural location, self sufficient for; power (generate and store our own), water (collect and store our own) grow lots of veggies, our own chickens for food and eggs etc because I grew to understand the problem of over consumption and how it related to un-sustainability. Pilger seems to loathe over consumption yet indulges in it and lives amongst it ? Seems perhaps he is suffering some sort of cognitive dissonance or is it simply wants an unsustainable consumerist society similar to one he has in mind ? His actions certainly lend little credence to his argument, to the point I don't even know what he's arguing against. It's much like saying obesity is a real problem with others while munching down a zillion kilojules.

Here's a link to a couple doing something similarly urban wise.
http://www.happyearth.com.au/
Perhaps by providing an example of a solution, instead of just whining about an issue might be a suggestion ?
Posted by Valley Guy, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 7:36:33 AM
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Here you go, runner.

This is a pertinent example of what vanna is expressing.

People in the third world are often exploited to provide most of the frippery and crap that adorn our palaces of excess....too much!

http://news.change.org/stories/indian-kids-labor-to-make-balloons-for-american-kids-parties
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 7:51:44 AM
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Doesen't say much for parents, Poirot, when they sell their kids
into slave labour.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 8:18:11 AM
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Oh yesssss,Yabby, how perceptive of you.

It couldn't possibly be the system, could it :)

Once upon a time, Britain had a similar system at the time of a similar industrial revolution. Little children were hired, enslaved and deformed in exactly the same manner because they were "cheap" and they had nimble fingers. The parents of those children had little choice as well and it would have endured if government intervention had not outlawed the practice. Working in toxic and stifling industries for a pittance, making playthings for the West is unconscionable - but globalisation doesn't discriminate - it's all okey-dokey in the shopping malls
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 8:31:53 AM
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*The parents of those children had little choice as well*

Oh come on Poirot. You make children, you have children, you
are their guardian, you are responsible for their wellbeing.
Otherwise don't have children. Stop trying to pass the buck
for what is a parents responsibility.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 8:37:05 AM
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Yabby,

You are a Westerner living in an affluent country with a decidedly "I'm all right, Jack" attitude. Why am I not surprised that you can never fathom lives and circumstances so different from your own.

I'll leave you to your "one-size-fits-all" idea of human experience.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 8:43:56 AM
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And another thing....

What you fail to take into account is that in traditional societies, children have always "worked". When the paradigm changes to one based on industrialisation, it takes some time before the population adjusts to the new mode of operation. During the British Industrial Revolution, it seemed logical that children who had worked in the fields or in cottage industry should continue to do so. However, the type of work and the conditions therein soon proved cruel and injurious to young bodies and minds. The same is now happening in third world countries where with the increasing urbanisation of the poor, there is a burgeoning industry to cater for the production of trinkets for the world.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 9:01:22 AM
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*Why am I not surprised that you can never fathom lives and circumstances so different from your own.*

Of course I can. But that does not change some fundamentals of
life. Even in other species, it is the role of parents to care
about the raising and wellbeing of their offspring. It is not
the role of parents to create childen and set them loose for
society to pick up the pieces.

If parents sell their children for mistreatment, blame the parents.

Why is it that parents are seemingly not responsible but society is?

Children were always the responsibility of their parents, nothing
has changed
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 10:19:32 AM
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Yabby my china you are so psychologically removed from the reality that enfolds most of the world. We have three worlds, Fist, Second, and Third, and the nuances and value system of a society that has no resource except that which comes in day by day vary greatly from yours and mine. Once again Yabby your "let them eat cake" mindset shines through, no Samaritan ideals in your psyche.
Posted by sonofgloin, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 4:57:25 PM
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Poirot

No one likes the exploitation of children. I dare say that you could buy these balloons at the corner deli or at a large shopping centre (which the article is taking aim at). Thankfully in places like India a child has more opportunity to born than in the 'rich'countries. Where we can stop the exploitation of children we should. What that has to do with millions in Asia being lifted out of poverty by exporting goods I am not sure. It seems a different issue altogether.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 5:19:27 PM
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Not sure if many people have been lifted out of poverty by globalisation. Some have become rich, and I was listening to a program today about an estimated 100 elephants per day being illegally killed in Africa to supply the new rich in China with ivory, but the new rich are still a tiny minority.

Meanwhile there are many millions still living in poverty in China, and it makes one wonder if there could be a better way.

The big shopping centres in the US began importing goods from China, resulting in millions of jobs being lost in the US, and the dole in the US is only about $100 a week, with 1 in 4 children in the US now living in poverty.

Most of the stuff being sold in shopping centers in Australia is now imported, with the loss of our own manufacturing industries, and we seem to be following the US trend.
Posted by vanna, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 7:03:05 PM
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runner,

The term "lifted out of poverty" is a tad nebulous when comparing the conditions between developed and developing countries. And it's not only children who are exploited in the rush to make trinkets for the West.
"Poverty lines" are constructed by countries to delineate those who are and are not living in poverty....and in China and India, for instance, these lines are set very low.

China's poverty line is set at around a dollar a day. Anyone under that is considered to be living in poverty. India has just altered its line so that anyone existing on the equivalent of 64 cents a day is under the "poverty line".
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/27/business/india-poverty-line/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Around 45 percent of people in developing countries live below two dollars a day.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 8:43:20 AM
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*And it's not only children who are exploited in the rush to make trinkets for the West.*

Ah, Poirot and her Western guilt trip continue. Never mind that
greedy parents in India exploit children to make bricks for the
locals, or that they sell them to the local sex industry.

Its Western trinkets which are to blame. Never mind that some
parents are responsible and others are not. All this is forgotten
in the name of demonising her favourite evil. Sheesh Poirot,
what a chip on your shoulder that you carry, its a bit bleeding
obvious.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 9:56:03 AM
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Well, there you go, Yabby.

All those disreputable third-world parents are just sadistic by nature, aren't they. They're human, but they're not human like us, are they.

Western parents take much more responsibility for their offspring...they don't abide by social mores at all - or do they?. It could be the reason why they now dispose of their infants into "daycare" at the earliest opportunity - so they can go out to earn money to purchase all the stuff those third-worlders make for us (while exploiting their children).

...it's a wonderful (Western constructed) utopia : )
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 10:20:51 AM
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*They're human, but they're not human like us, are they.*

Ah Poirot, feel free to create your own strawman arguments,
but of course that was not my claim.

Parents, as the guardians and creators of their children,
should be responsible for them and for their wellbeing,
no matter where they live.

Its a bit like pets really. Don't have them, if you can't
look after them
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 10:42:19 AM
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Yabby,

"It's a bit like pets really. Don' have them if you can't look after them."

For someone who purports to possess an advanced knowledge of human behaviour, you really inhabit a most simplistic Western construct. Why don't you apply your knowledge to something other than a Western paradigm? A little anthropological study would go along way to addressing your one-size-fits-all outlook.

"Simplistic" in the extreme.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 10:54:07 AM
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Poirot, I lived in Africa for a number of years in my youth,
so I know all about other perspectives.

Knowledge is the process of piling up facts, wisdom lies
in their simplification. I'll stick to wisdom :)
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 1:20:53 PM
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Nice to know you think you're so wise and all-knowing, Yabby.

"...so I know all about other perspectives."

Here's an aphorism from someone a little wiser than both of us:

"Like power in any shape, a full stomach always holds a dose of insolence, and this dose expresses itself first of all in the well-fed lecturing of the starving."

Chekhov.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 2:30:30 PM
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I don't claim to be all knowing, Poirot.

I simply don't wear my little heart on my sleeve
like some of you. After a time your Western guilt
trip becomes a bit of a bore.

As at July 2011, there were something like 850
million mobile phone subscribers in India.
In the 1960s, the Indian Govt established the
world's largest family planning programme, so
people have choices

If people have 6-8 children by choice, for
all sorts of reasons, they are responsible
for their actions. You make out as if greedy
Indians do not exist, its all that evil
West's fault. Think again, better still
go there and find out for yourself.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 7:21:58 PM
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