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The Forum > Article Comments > Why my generation is wrong about gay marriage > Comments

Why my generation is wrong about gay marriage : Comments

By Blaise Joseph, published 14/9/2011

There is nothing wrong with a definition of marriage that discriminates - it is meant to.

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".. the gay marriage lobby ... has very effective talking points: that marriage currently discriminates against gays, denying them their individual rights to express their love ... "

This is a mis-representation; a strawman fallacy. No-one is claiming anything around the marriage debate is denying individuals' ability or rights to express love.

No-one is saying "marriage" discriminates against gays.

" .. that two people of the same sex marrying each other doesn't affect anyone else." is just an appeal to self-centredness on the part of those who feel the need to be affected.

Bill Shorten, you do realise and acknowledge what the divorce rate is? You do realise 'appeal to tradition' might not be relevant to changing society?
.
Posted by McReal, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 11:33:21 AM
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Those who are under the misconception that personal attacks are somehow valid and reasonable arguments need to seriously look within themselves.
Like wait500, I too think it was nailed with the comment "It would change the institution of marriage from being centred around the production and well-being of children to being based on the self-fulfilment of adults."
Posted by Interested_party, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 11:36:44 AM
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Love isn’t criteria for marriage. Marriage isn’t validated by love – it’s validated by the cold and unromantic process of filing a signed document at the Births, Deaths, and Marriages office. The couple may even attest to their greatest, heartfelt loathing for the person they are marrying in their vows, and this still won’t make the marriage any less valid.

Regarding your plea to naturalism via comparison of the heterosexual and homosexual union, it’s true that in the natural world homosexual intercourse doesn’t produce offspring. But humans stopped living in the natural world when they created fire, wore clothes, built huts, sowed crops, domesticated animals, invented written language, sailed ships, flew aeroplanes – all the way to expressed opinion via a world-wide network.
Nature hasn’t dictated who we are since before the concept of marriage – our species is unique in that it effectively dictates to nature who we are. So why should the raw nature of our own organism dictate marriage policy? It’s only natural to die from severe trauma to our vital organs – but no one is too proud to accept invasive surgery rather than let our own body’s natural healing capabilities fail us.

You say:

“The practical consequences of gay marriage for children and society would be long-term but still very concerning... It would obscure the value of opposite-sex parenting as an ideal...”

The Australian Psychological Society says its review Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) Parented Families:

“research indicates that parenting practices and children’s outcomes in families parented by lesbian and gay parents are likely to be at least as favourable as those in families of heterosexual parents, despite the reality that considerable legal discrimination and inequity remain significant challenges for these families”

The only disadvantage children of same-sex parents experiences is the discrimination that their parents face.
Posted by Erebus, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 11:37:07 AM
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Carol83 Blaise (male) by not itdentifying his affiliations, as a supporter and contributor to a political right wing group, dilutes his argument.
Posted by Kipp, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 11:41:50 AM
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"marriage" relationships have always been determined and shaped by economics and the economics of survival.
Whenever the prevailing system of economics has changed then the patterns of inter-personal relationships have always changed too - INEVITABLY.

To my mind one of the best examinations of how this has always been so is given by James Alison via this talk, and his work altogether.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/encounter/stories/2010/3029756.htm

Plus this vexed topic is also very much about how children have been treated.

Two seminal works on this VERY important topic are:
Philippe Aries via Centuries of Childhood
Lloyd deMause via a History of Childhood - and his psycho-history project too.

Altogether both authors point out that the history of childhood has always been essentially a history of child abuse.Mostly of course due to the terrible struggle just to survive.
Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 11:53:05 AM
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I think Blaise should actually read the report he's cited in his piece, Parkinson himself says it has nothing to do with same-sex couples who raise children.

http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/2011/09/14/parkinson-report-not-about-gay-parents/6159
Posted by JepJep92, Wednesday, 14 September 2011 12:14:36 PM
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