Antiseptic

You wrote "However, I think it's pretty obvious from mollydukes's contributions here that she is in no way unable to contribute. She is lucid, assertive, well-read, well able to prosecute her claims in discussion. She is, in short, able to contribute and she should not be exempted from that obligation if she expects the benefit of the social support structures.

But she gets killer migraines that can last for days - throw up every time I move and would kill myself if I could keep the pills down or set up the apparatus - I think a hose attached to the exhaust might be the easiest way.

Sorry to be so rude last time I replied but I do get a bit of a brain buzz prior to an attack but I am just not a 'nice' person a lot of the time. Should I be just because I am poor? Aspergers like me really don't like people that much - we prefer dogs to humans. Dogs are honest and predictable to me; humans are not.

I would and did make a bad employee - except in the university environment where people forgave me my 'personality' or social defects because my other abilities were valued. They aren't in any other workplace.

I do contribute as much as I believe I 'should'. You can ask questions about my contribution if you want to. I'm not up to explaining in detail now, how and what I contribute in return for my disability pension as I have only just managed to get up, eat some toast and tea.

Oh I might also say that I think I have given back full measure for my single parent benefit since I now have 3 adult children (all with my type of aspergers) but all in full time employment, participating and paying tax, thanks to the fact that I was able to stay home and give them enough time and help to cope with their 'disability'.

Antiseptic I have been reading back over the previous posts and you aren't as rabid as I thought.

Peter whatever his name is, is a waste of headspace. I was interested in understanding what he thought about the idea that Hayek - and libertarians - are Aspergers themselves.

Aspergers isn't necessarily a mental illness. I am particularly dysfunctional and failed in the past, to cope with 'normality' because of my not so functional upbringing that exacerbated my problems. I do okay these days with medication, and understanding that what goes on in my head isn't the same as what goes on in other people's - that really has helped.

With good parenting, like Poirot is providing,aspergers can be fine although they do need some understanding from employers. Perhaps it was easier for them to find work in the past because the requirements for social skills were not so ubiquitous or high.

One incident from my daughters experience as a worker with aspergers -she is a computer programmer of course - and at one place her employers offered her more money to be 'approachable'. She had no idea what they meant and isn't motivated my money anyway. Her new employers don't insist she go to company functions or join in the office gossip.

I don't feel any empathy for you Antiseptic unless you tell me you are suffering. I think I explained that I had to learn to feel empathy and I think that if I had not had the experience of living among the welfare class, I would not have much empathy for them either.

They seem like a useless bunch overall but you can't tell from the outside what it is like inside, and I know that it is not easy or fun being dysfunctional and not understand why my 'choices' always turned out to be the wrong choice.

Are you suffering because you have worked all your life? Or have you enjoyed it and gained satisfaction from your activities?

Also Antiseptic I have always been in favour of mutual obligation. I think that should be the foundation of our society. It was, as I have explained in another post, a left wing social worker who, well before Mr Howard was PM, explained to me in a way that I understood, that I had an obligation to society if I recieved a Government benefit.

Prior to that I 'hated' society and wanted no part of it. I didn't understand what I was supposed to do or how to do it and I would have been among the rioters in London, I am sure if I had not had the help and encouragement from the Dept of Social Security that they provided back in the 80's, to get an education and sort out my problems.

I think that GDP and your idea of what is 'productive' as a measure of human progress is now useless. We have enough stuff - too much - and it's bad for us. We need to be productive and entrepeneural in producing healthy brains, bodies and souls, not more economic growth and that is what I work toward without any need to make a profit.

Sometimes I fancy myself as a conscious objector to this society but I often have strange ideas particularly after a headache.

Perhaps those of you who are well read and knowledgeable about Aspergers should consider an article - it seems to me that it being in defined in such a way that just about everyone has aspects of the syndrome.
I suspect the real problem lies with the fact that have develioped a culture that focused on people's disabilities not their abilities - this is precisely the problem with schooling - we have a system that aims to produce people who are so alike that any diversity is stamped out - failing to realise that human progress has been produced by the mavericks, the people capable of standing outside of the herd and contemplate a different world - it is these well educated misfits, to quote the article that sparked this thread, in which any hope for the future of humanity resides.

Molly, thanks for your very comprehensive response. As I said, I do empathise with your affliction, and I'm sure it makes things difficult. Chronic illnesses of all sorts do that and none of them are pleasant for the sufferer. That's still begging the question of contribution though.

Am I suffering because of my choices relating to work? I'd have to say that I am, somewhat. I haven't had a holiday in about 5 years, although with the current downturn, it sort of feels like one. I spend a great deal of time doing things that I would not choose to do if it wasn't for the money. Would I be happier unemployed? To be honest, I'm not sure. I'd like the freedom from responsibility, but I'd hate the lack of capacity to do things because of having no money. Being self-employed is the best compromise for me, since I get to choose what I do and when, to a large extent, provided the minimal necessities are taken care of.

To go on from Baygon's suggestion, I'd be very interested to hear more from you and Poirot and others on the subject of ASDs. I have to say that having read a bit about it because of this discussion, I see a great deal of myself in the descriptions, albeit not at the debilitating end of the scale. The descriptions of AS in childhood are especially compelling and explain a few things which were somewhat mysterious to me about my own experiences. I'd never considered the possibility before.

It's a fascinating topic, actually

Antiseptic,

It is a fascinating topic.

Just to clarify that an Aspergers diagnosis is given instead of a straight autistic one if no deficit has been met in "communication" criteria.

The term "educated misfit" is pertinent to this thread because schooling is amongst the most trying situations for anyone with ASD. The more affected children are quite significantly disabled and therefore receive the attention they require - and the understanding. However for someone who is high-functioning, that is often not the case. Most people don't understand that it is not only certain behaviours that are an issue but also certain physical sensitivities.
Many people have sensitivities to light, sound and smells, for instance. Things that wouldn't bother anyone else, become excruciating for someone with ASD. Abrupt changes in routine can petrify a child with ASD. Social interaction is often fraught, because often ASD children are particularly naive and gullible and have difficulty regulating their input and reactions. Other neuro-typical children pick up on this automatically and most times find it almost impossible not to take advantage - simply because they can.

Repetitive behaviour is an aspect of autism at both ends of the spectrum. At the lower end it is normally physical in nature, but at the high end it is likely to take the form of an obsession or a special interest (which can change regularly) For instance, my little guy is quite interested in dates and people of note....so he regularly talks about this. To give you an example of how this behaviour may seem odd to another child. During a visit with our home education moderator, he started talking about the Camp David accord when Carter hosted Begin and Sadat - just out of the blue. He was nine years-old at the time. But then again, mostly he has perfectly ordinary conversations... that's where it's quirky.

As I've mentioned, by home educating it gives him the opportunity to learn through his special interests, which is very important because often if children with ASD aren't interested in something they just switch off.

More later.