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Education: are we getting value for money? : Comments
By John Töns, published 31/8/2011In an ideal world education systems produce well educated misfits who are capable of looking at our society with a jaundiced critical eye.
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Posted by Mollydukes, Saturday, 10 September 2011 12:23:05 PM
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Radio National has a lots of stories and information about Aspergers in many of the programs; The Health Report, Life Matters, All In The Mind etc.
These two stories/interviews, both with the same bloke, reflect some of my peculiar ways of seeing our materialistic society. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/ockhamsrazor/stories/2006/1711792.htm http://www.abc.net.au/rn/ockhamsrazor/stories/2007/1843937.htm Posted by Mollydukes, Saturday, 10 September 2011 2:00:24 PM
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Peter Hume,
You make a good point - and I'm sure I come over in this instance as spectacularly hypocritical. But my views are squarely focused on "industrial society" and what occurred in the past when laissez faire was the model. I believe sitting children in a row like battery hens for their education has got knobs on it....but it's connected with sort of society we've fashioned - indeed, it's a mirror. Change the paradigm and you'll change educational experience for children. But is that possible without being forced into it by "collapse" of the present system? It costs me peanuts to home educate my boy, because most of everything he needs to learn is all around him - books, conversation, practical endeavour, etc. I have to stick to my states curriculum framework - although I'd be hard-pressed to flout it as most of it is common sense wrapped up in gobbldygook. On the other hand, I'm at liberty to ditch NAPLAN as I'm in control of how my son is assessed. In fact he doesn't usually get ticked or crossed - if he has a problem with something, we deal with it at the time...so it is a very different way of looking at things. I wonder if it is possible, Peter, to give all children opportunity in your user-pays system. My grab for liberty in this respect works because I'm up for the responsibility. Our system is set up so that most parents feel they have no right to take on such a role. Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 10 September 2011 8:00:37 PM
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Antiseptic,
I get where you're coming from. All of a sudden the pieces are beginning to fit. My son will just want to talk on and on about his current interest. It doesn't mean he can't or won't talk about other things, but whenever he can he'll raise his own subject. (in fact, it's rather handy that his interest is dates and people of note because each of those is related to an event in a time and place, and that leads him to broader fields which enhances his learning). It wasn't that long ago that the average age for an Aspergers diagnosis was 11 years of age. There are still heaps of kids who struggle in the education system undiagnosed. Our paediatrician initially told me my son was gifted. After much research and knowing school-proper was looming, I went back to him, but he was reluctant to refer my son for a formal assessment because he didn't think he'd meet the criteria. He told me this with a smirk on his face. By that stage of proceedings, I was equally confident that he would, so I stood my ground and when he was finally assessed by a psychologist and speech pathologist he met 9.5 or the 12 criteria areas - and he is relatively mildly affected. So sometimes it's difficult for children to get to the formal assessment stage, let alone be diagnosed. In my opinion it's crucial for a child with Aspergers who's attending school to be diagnosed - then it's taken into account. Although many children in that position are still misunderstood and situations like the one BAYGON alluded to are still common. The education system is "not" fashioned for square pegs - and these children are still rammed into round holes with great detriment to their self-esteem and their own idea of their capabilities. Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 10 September 2011 9:48:57 PM
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Peter, my experience was that a top-level private school, among the most expensive places to learn in the country, was much worse for me than the State education system had provided earlier. Because of the focus on a narrow set of behavioural standards and a rigidity in pedantry, as well as a rather toxic social atmosphere I did much less well at high school than was anticipated by anyone. What I did learn was resilience in the face of oppressively authoritarian bullying, but I'm not sure that's worth the effort. I've been making an effort to find some distinguished alumni from my school cohort and they're depressingly few and far between. The school seems to have been very good at turning out grey, faceless men rather than outstanding achievers. I'm sure that fits well with Canon Morris's original purpose in founding the school, but it's not something I'd aspire to for my own kids.
On the other hand, I'm sure that most kids do just fine with the normal school offerings. My experience with my own kids suggests that when parents are involved actively with their children's education teachers respond very positively, for the most part. If there is a problem area, it's that there is far too much nannyism in schools, meaning that a lot of kids are being disciplined and even suspended for things that are really quite innocuous, which is reflective of the rise of the Mrs Grundys in society generally. Perhaps it's changing. We can hope. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/funky-school/story-e6frg8h6-1226130668112 Posted by Antiseptic, Sunday, 11 September 2011 6:49:32 AM
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Thanks for the links, Molly. Chris Nagle's description of reading about Asperger's really mirrors my own of just a few days ago. It's a sense of having a handle on something that has always been a bit mysterious to me. I read a lot of "self-improvement" book in my young adulthood, as I'm sure many do, but apart from "I'm OK, You're OK" I didn't find anything much in any of them that spoke to my own nature. I still use transactional analysis to this day to help me work out relationships. Perhaps it's the boolean nature of the analysis that works for me?
Poirot, I'm really interested in your experiences teaching your son. I have a suspicion that both of my chldren are somewhere on the spectrum as well and it would be helpful to hear of some of the strategies you use. I could not home-school, since there's just no way their mothr would agree, but I really think my son especially would benefit. He often has problems with learning at school, but picks things up readily when he has something to relate them to within his own interests. My daughter has inherited my own penchant for procrastination and tends to become very withrawn when forced to meet a deadline. She also has a variable relationship with most of her peers. A couple of days ago she came home with the complaint that "they're all so shallow" and only want to talk about clothes and boys. She tends to want to spend most of her time alone and to interact with just one person at a time. I'll investigate some more. Posted by Antiseptic, Sunday, 11 September 2011 7:23:53 AM
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I am sure that most people have some aspects of aspergers and your penchant for being self-employed as well as the other behavioural traits you mention, I think is consistent with the idea that you are a high functioning aspie.
My father couldn't work for other people and we moved around a lot - 12 different schools in 8 years - so that he could start his own businesses; they always failed despite the hard work and long hours he put in, because he was a lousy businessman and he also had bi-polar type depression.
As far as reading material goes, my daughter found the author, Simon Baron-Cohen, that Poirot refers to, to be very useful for her as a female aspergers. My son found Sarah Hendrickx and her book 'Asperger Syndrome and Employment' helpful.
I understand that high functioning Aspies are good at minicry. So that if we find a supportive, predictable environment, we adapt to the requirements and blend in pretty well.
That happened to me at Uni; I would have been fine there for ever and not been on disability although still on Govt money. I earned a Research Council grant to do my PhD and my Professor was always able to find grant money to continue to employ me.
But he had come to the regional university - formerly an Institute of Advanced Education - to get the foundation professorship on offer, and when he realised that the Dawkins reforms that were supposed to make all tertiary centres equal had failed, he needed to get back to a 'real' university.
He was very keen for me to move with him, and other post-docs did, but with my problems and with one child in her final year of high school there was no way I could move to another state where there would be no family support; where I didn't have a doctor who knew my long history, a mechanic who I could talk to, etc etc. The problems in moving when one doesn't have any confidence in oneself seem insurmountable.