King Hazza - interesting that you think you know what is best from my daughter - when you know nothing about her at all.

And Catherine - I have 3 children, 2 daughters and a son. I accept that Pageants aren't right for every child. There is no way in the world my eldest daughter would have entered pageants; not because she is any less beautiful than her sister, purely because her personality is very different, she would have been horrified to have been on that stage.
Of course, I would never tell one they were more beautiful than the other, as I would never tell one she was more intelligent or a better dancer than the other.

She isn't out drinking or trawling the streets at all hours of the night getting into trouble. My daughter is kind and considerate, she is a fun loving, gentle 15 year old girl who happens to enjoy getting on stage in a beautiful gown with her hair and makeup done. She then gets off stage takes off her crown (if she is lucky enough to win one) and puts it away then leaves her clothes in a heap on the floor like any other 15 year old and gets on with her life.

Pageantmum, thanks for your honesty. It’s interesting that you wouldn’t tell your daughters who’s the better dancer let alone best looking, yet you’ll allow her to be judged against an adult contrived beauty ideal by a panel of judges. I should also point out that I do understand how much fun the dressing up/performance aspects of pageants can be.

Houellebecq, clearly your problem is more with ‘idealistic feminists’ than genuine concern for how beauty competition may/not impact on children/society. Historically beauty competition has targeted girls mostly, however as the beauty industry now has its sights on the male market with an increase in male cosmetics and surgical procedures to fit the ‘ideal',that will change. Rgrdless of gender, the message‘compare and despair’/’looks=currency’ is one no child should have foistered upon them. Sure, children choose to dress up, perform..but they don’t seek to compete based on looks.

You make many assumptions in an attempt to categorise and dismiss my concern. I'm very happy in my own skin, there has never been any beauty competition in my family, and I don't have ugly kids! Sorry to disappoint. Best fight the ball and not the wo/man.

I've never said beauty pageants are ALL about looks(although some categories are), nor that every child should win a prize, nor that there's a problem with competitions that teach children deportment/public speaking/confidence. My 'issue' is with scoring a child on their physical beauty. That's it.

Even if it's only 10%, when two girls are coming a draw in all other sections, the prize will go to the one judges deem the 'prettiest'. Sure, beauty judgement occurs in society (especially where increasingly narrow beauty ideals are 'sold'), but it's not a healthy comp to engage young children in. We know that from today’s myriad of body image issues and disorders affecting young people as a result of 'beauty focus' culture. Justify it all you like, I can't see any positive coming from putting a child in a beauty competition that tells them they don't (or do) cut it in the looks department - either for the individual child or society in general.

Unless you're a pageant promoter or services provider, a beauty industry interest or cosmetic surgeon hoping to cash in on the next wave of customers with image dissatifaction, I don't see why you would be too worried about having the beauty component removed from pageants for children. Seriously, WHO is that going to impact negatively upon?

BTW, your comment ‘Men are valued on strength, women on looks. This is our culture, for better or worse’, speaks a thousand words. If challenging that ‘cultural’ dogma by rejecting the teaching of that to children means I’m an idealistic feminist, then I am one, and then some!

Catherine.
I will start by saying it has been a pleasure discussing this topic with you (and I genuinly mean that) This is a subject that we could discuss for 100 years and never agree on.
I really dont understand how you think that telling someone that another person showed more grace and personality on that particular day would have a greater affect on anyone than a dancer who is beaten repeatedly in competition by a better dancer. Just because someone wins a particular pageant, does not guarantee them winning the next.
And before you ask my eldest daughter was a dancer, she was quite good too, but not quite good enough to win - she was defeated repeatedly by the same girl, who went on to dance professionally. I would say surely that would be worse than occasionally winning.
Regards
Debbie

Wow you've softened your stance Catherine!

From 'pulling the pin', to now just the 10% category that is based solely on looks.

'Seriously, WHO is that going to impact negatively upon?'

Certainly not me, definately pageant mum and her daughter, but that's not the question now is it. The question is...

Why should your political beliefs rob others of something they enjoy, and why are your parenting beliefs to be applied to other people's children?

Beauty is part of life, those that are afraid of it want it abolished, but those who are comfortable with it see it as just that, a part of life, and a part of a person, something that fades, and not something so threatening as not to be celebrated. It's actually the feminist here that gives attention/power to beauty; The very act of attempting to place it as some taboo topic, vitriolically opposing any celebration of it and framing it as some ubiquitous all consuming tragedy of mankind. All the while not realising this Myopia is not with 'society' or 'culture' (Of which beauty is only but a bit player), but inside the individual feminist.

This ideological bent about beauty is really just an angry vitriolic world view, I think based on some resentment of the fact men enjoy looking at beautiful women. There doesn't seem to be any corresponding angry vitriolic world view from any ideology about men being valued by women on toughness or physical strength, or valued on their provider earning power. Nobody wants to ban The Apprentice, nobody wants to ban gymnasiums or sports cars.

'You make many assumptions in an attempt to categorise and dismiss my concern. I'm very happy in my own skin, there has never been any beauty competition in my family, and I don't have ugly kids! Sorry to disappoint.'

Oh no dissapointment here. The prickly defensive tone and wordy justification speaks volumes.

BTW In your idealistic feminist (and then some) fervor, to what degree do we widen this 'narrow' definition of physical beauty? So wide that it includes ugly people?

Haha everyone gets a prize!