Now there’s an extreme assumption Hasbeen! Just because I am concerned about children being pitted against each other and judged on beauty, I must have a ‘fear of someone being judged as beautiful’? Yikes, I must get me some therapy! ;) Appreciating that there are people more genetically endowed than others in the looks department isn’t a problem at all, turning that into a competition for children - especially in a beauty obsessed culture - is (there’s a whole other topic for conversation around the beauty ‘ideal’ for little girls in pageants!).
I will assume then that you don’t see a problem with standing your two daughters/nieces side by side and telling one she’s more beautiful than the other. Would you give one extra pocket money for being the prettiest too? What 'value system' is that instilling in children

I think it's a bit disingenuous to say beauty pageants are all just about looks. It's like saying Rugby League is only about muscle. Sure muscle helps a lot, but skill comes into play, and skill can beat muscle.

If it is all about looks, why don't they just rate photos and save everyone the time and hassle? Because there are skills involved! Not just presentation skills, and anyway the fashion industry and makeup *artisits* of the world I am sure see it as a skill.

As in the martial arts, there are issues about self presentation, confidence. There are public speaking skills, posture, an ethos of self confidence. There are lessons like in sport of learning you don't always win, shaking hands with the enemy, accepting the subjective nature of the referees, losing and trying better to win next time.

You paint this picture of it being just about rating looks, if that were the case it would take 2 minutes.

I agree with Hasbeen you seem threatened about looks even being a part of the competition. Kids already know looks are part of life, everytime an adult says how pretty a girl is and how strong a boy is.

This is an idealogical feminist opposition but I'm sick of ideology interfering with kids activities. It's ruining sport for a start; 'Everyone gets a prize' is not what sport is about, and it takes away from some of the lessons, and turns it into a farce. Luckily kids can sniff out a farce quick smart.

If it was all about looks, the same kid would win every time. I'm sure in reality it shows that a beaming character and carying oneself with confidence, originality in performance, can go a long way.

Supposedly 'sekshualising' kids is no different to *politicising* everything kids do, making a big deal about gender in toys and clothes and any innocent activity kids get into. Lets face it all kids look beautiful with the nutrician and dentistry we have these days.

I bet you read your kids politically correct bedtime stories in all seriousness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_Correct_Bedtime_Stories

Cinderella

A parody of the Cinderella fairy tale, with a distinctly feminist and anti-lookist twist. The ending is completely different from the original fairy tale.

Cinderella's "Fairy Godperson" (who is male) reluctantly agrees to dress her up for the ball. However, she is so attractive in her impractical shoes, clothing and makeup, that every male in the ballroom goes mad for her and a brawl begins that eventually results in the death of every last one of them. The women, jealous of Cinderella's ability to make men go mad for her beauty, at first turn on her; however, the clock strikes midnight, and she is transformed back to her peasant garb—and is so happy to be in comfortable clothes again, that the other women decide they're now jealous of her comfort. Instead of killing her, however, they remove their own corsets and dresses and impractical shoes and dance around in their "shifts and bare feet". Covering up the real reason behind the men's deaths, they take over the kingdom and open a clothing company that produces only comfortable and practical clothing for women.

Little Red Riding Hood

Based on the popular fairy tale of the same name, this parody includes as its main themes mocking the idea of anti-"speciesism" and the more radical branches and concepts of feminism (such as using the spelling "womyn" instead of "women" throughout, a pattern that is repeated in other stories in the book), and is one of the several stories in which the ending is completely altered from the original fairy tale.

The woodsman (who saves Little Red Riding Hood and her grandmother in the most well-known versions of the tale) ends up beheaded by the grandmother, who leaps from the wolf's mouth of her own accord after a "stirring" moralizing speech from Red. This comes after of course Red Riding Hood has labeled him as "sexist" and "speciesist" for deciding to try to save Red Riding Hood by killing the wolf. The wolf, Red Riding Hood, and her grandmother then form an "alternative household" together.

'Do you have more than one daughter? Would you tell one she's more beautiful than the other?'

Is that what happened to you Cathy?

That from a mother of course would hurt, but from a random referee, not much more than being penalised for a high tackle that was around the shoulder, or being given out Caught Behind when you KNOW you didn't knick it. Such an injustice is part of life. Sometimes you don't get picked for the rep team, even when you think you're good enough and other's agree. This is part of sport and good lessons for LIFE!

You cant protect them from everything, and you SHOULDN'T.

Men are valued on strength, women on looks. This is our culture, for better or worse. Another part of our culture is that beauty is only skin deep. Yet another is confident people are sexy. Another is girls like playing dress up. How exciting having dress ups on a massive scale, that you can do with your mum and other girls and their mums.

In the end, if you want to give your kids gender neutral toys and reprimand grandparents when they say how beautiful your little girl is or tell your little boy that boys don't cry and be a big strong little man, then that's your business.

Other parents enjoy accepting the culture around them and giving their kids the best tools to roll with the punches, and participate in activities they enjoy. People are differnt, and some are less sensitive and some enjoy exhibitionism and pampering themseleves, and enjoying this time with their daughters, and passing on their knowledge like this akin to a Dad bringing his son fishing to barbarically kill another animal.

To each his (or her) own.

Why should your political beliefs rob others of something they enjoy, and why are your parenting beliefs to be applied to other people's children?

Who can honestly say that by keeping the kids from competing that they will be free from comparison on physical attributes. This happens every day in the school yard, and in life. Those in the competition are there because they want to be, and all generally have a good time.

What a bunch of precious mums. I think you are all projecting your own political views onto the wishes of the children. No one is forced to compete.

"I admit that she started her Pageant life later than some, but she would tell you herself if they were around when she was younger she would have been front of the queue. She would have never forgiven me if I had known about them and not let her take part. "
Pageantmum- believe me, it was still for the best.
Consider that at her current age, she could easily pick up several hobbies and manage a pageant- at a younger age, being able to keep on top of the expectations she may find easy now, is a lot more difficult, and may well have compromised her ability to engage in the other hobbies she does now- and as such, becomes more invested solely in the pageant.

Shadow- the difference between judgement in society- regarding someone in the first years of primary school and a panel of judges in a pageant;
1- at very young ages, judgement is not as explicit, and not as strongly emphasized on you individually. In fact, it is actually against school rules to single out students or make remarks about their appearance- which means in the very least that when someone does evaluate another, the student knows they other person is out of line- rather than telling her she fell short of the standards she is actually trying to achieve.
2- nobody in the school yard is particularly invested in being the best outside of school hours, as opposed to fitting in. No wasted efforts for not being number 1, and no prize for being number 1.
3- more time outside the system of judgement to get beyond it
4- most importantly- more judges- differences of opinions is more apparent.