The big difference between the Greens and the others is The Green actually believe in stuff. whether you like want they believe in is a different matter. There is no "what do the polls say" politics.

"There is no "what do the polls say" politics."

And this is exactly why they will never hold power. Government is the art of compromise; but as the Democrats learned, as soon as you start to compromise you lose the qualities which your supporters valued you for. Before the Greens can take part in a real government -- as opposed to the bizarre travesty we have now -- they will have to learn that democracy is based on the principle that the people en masse are wiser than you are. And what's more, that the principle generally works.

I always thought the prime agenda of the Democrats, under Don Chipp at least, was

they were there to "keep the bastards honest"

Certainly Blob Brown & Co are such a bunch of lying, manipulative trolls, any claim to "honesty" would be completely fictional

@Col Rouge

I don't think that the Trolls ever claimed to be Honest.

To be an Extremist Organization excludes Honesty

I think that the "lying, manipulative trolls" are generally those who endlessly tell lies about the Greens in online forums, despite having been made aware of the facts.

It's OK though, reasonable and moderate electors are very much in step with the Greens' policies:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/its-not-extreme-to-be-green-20110716-1hito.html

Oddly, the anti-Green shills often project their own tawdry tactics on to the Greens. Bob Brown is accused of being a lying troll - I don't suppose anybody's got any evidence of Brown lying, or of maliciously attacking anybody?

I think it's pretty clear who the "lying, manipulative troll" is here.

The Greens have basically taken over the turf previously occupied by the Labor Left. The Left faction has been derided by the Labor Party for years and it is no surprise that their supporters have moved elsewhere. Perhaps the rise of the Greens is really just a symptom of Labor Party malaise.

On issues such as the Carbon Tax, the Labor Party would alternate between radically different policies which gives the impression they really don't stand for anything.

I know better, should avoid this thread and subject like the plague.
I have been playing the printed form of verbal tennis here and before in other forums in defense of My ALP for near ten years.
Some times I took the birch stick to my party, its remnants in NSW 2 years before the train wreck.
Of all the battles and there have been many, only the Greens form crows councils.
We now and again just for the fun of it should look at our selves.
All of us here in OLO.
No saint no fountain of knowledge myself, but some who come here, what can I say.
The insults! gee twice I ran away never intending to come back! fragile and foolish, that was me.
I came back and rolled my insulting opponent on every confrontation, by fair debate.
Look at the near rabid right, babbling and ,you can see them shouting in their words.
But here now watch the sticks on my back, because my thoughts are disliked by? the greens.
Labor has never been lower, why are the greens not greatly increasing their vote.
Can it be conservatives are gaining by green fearing ALP voters going to them.
IF ALP problem is we are too far to the right how come the greens are not picking up our lost kids.
Can it possible be true, more Australians will never vote green than ever will vote for them.
Not yet but one day, I will return to general comments section.
But at present it is in green hands and I reserve the right to think for my self.
I wish to remind one ex friend to both over estimate your understanding and under estimate others is no proof of right or wrong.

Has anyone noticed?
Am I being too harsh.
Once I would have had our Morgan in about third place.
On my list of top ten posters here.
My list no longer exists.
I have been sent to Coventry by greens and new recruits.
NO not conservatives, not my forever opponents on the silly walks bench's of the tea party right.
But by Morgans mob!
My sins? Saying the Malaysian solution would work, it already is.
Being one of the majority, yep it is a sin to say most want the boats to stop.
For[ quite rude of me] reminding greens more dislike them than EVER WILL VOTE for them.
Silly me, I insist on asking why, with Labor near death, refugees vote conservative and greens votes are frozen.
And to the endless tripe! Labors march with the voters to the right costs us votes.
WHY do greens not make great gains right now at our lowest.
Hide under that rusty sheet of Iron the greens are, but understand that is all it is not a home for voters from middle Australia.
Order in the house gentle men and women, if every opponent of every party is as Morgan says of me and other realists telling lies we need to take a breath.
Debate must be free but civil.
If the greens poll is stagnant now tell me when will it get better under what cercomstances, Green Acres is only a dream, for most Australians it forever is a nightmare.

Ascencion? ASCENSION? of green senators? By what divine force?

I'd say scrabbling aboard, knocking women and children out of the way in their haste to be unrepresentative.

Belly you ask "Am I being too harsh."

I don't want to divert this thread. Have a look at the thread you started on Federal elections and preferences, it may be a better spot to sort that out.

Cheers
R0bert

Well, it seems that the huge attraction towards the Greens (and Democrats) is they seemed to be staunchly against cronyism and political corruption rife in the major parties;

The Democrats instantly lost all their credibility when they proved they were putting on an act and were just as crooked and jumped on the bandwagon to privatize telstra, and never recovered.

The Greens so far had actually managed to prove that they are serious about their 'keeping the bastards honest' stance, and have shown they aren't going to be compromised away from their promised stances, which is clearly why their support is growing (and Labor is slipping since Julia backflipped on the Carbon Tax after explicitly denying she would do it).

And I think the only policies that the Greens endorse that turns most Australians off them are their soft refugee policy and their carbon tax policy.

morgonzola "I think that the "lying, manipulative trolls" are generally those who endlessly tell lies about the Greens in online forums, despite having been made aware of the facts."

one of the "Facts" you rely is where you stated there was no Greens before 1992....

but a few of us can recall early movements in the 1960's and entryism by trotskyites in UK green / environment movements in 1980s...

all before your claimed "birth date" in 1992

So if that is what you rely on as "facts" I guess you must go to school with the lying trolls who presented fraudulent J curves of warming to obtain more grant funds and make hysterical claims to justify more pointless intrusions into the lives of previously free people.

Which makes your notions of "truth" just another example of "lying, manipulative trolls of the green and left of centre political movements

now Morganzola... I trust that is now clear or would you like me / do I need to, elaborate further?

I believe than many who voted Green at the last election did so thinking that, like the Democrats before them, were harmless garden gnomes who would have no real influence on policy, and were a safe repository for a protest vote against the two major parties. How wrong they were - now a party of extreme zealots control our country, and our whole way of life will all be changed in their bigoted image.

"now a party of extreme zealots control our country, and our whole way of life will all be changed in their bigoted image."

The Greens only have the level of control that the others give them. Eg if Labor and the Libs can agree on something then it does not matter much how the Greens vote. The only opportunity they have to implement Green Policy where it's not otherwise part of the plans of the Lib's or Labor is by trading, allowing something else to pass in exchange for what they want. If it's extreme and allowed to past then it apparently wasn't too extreme for one of the other parties.

So really concerns about the power the Greens hold is about the integrity of the two major parties.

R0bert

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/greens-are-draining-the-nations-grassroots-20110718-1hlgh.html
Robert sorry mate, but no.
I understand the greens are of great use to your conservative side of politics.
And that you see a better side of them than me, not For I am sure that reason.
My time here in exile is because of that thread.
In it my right to think as I wish was challenged and it is my view I was informed if I wanted to be spoken to,, it would be best if I kept my thoughts to myself.
RObert, fellow posters, my party is fighting for its very existence.
I fear Murdock, Abbott's ability to sell lies and a truck load of non core promises.
But if the greens get their wish, to stop clear eyes and heads, not the insulting ranters we see here, they insult free speech.
But if considered though is defamed because it is not wanted?
Maybe just maybe, greens are a Trojan horse living as they must to have power in my party's heart, but not its brain not ever.

@R0bert:

Thanks for that. Clearly, the anti-Greens operate on Abbott's strategy that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes true.

Col Rouge deliberately confuses the Greens political party in Australia with small-g 'green' environmental groups in Britain 20 years ago. Certainly there have been attempts by socialists to infiltrate both 'green' and 'Green' groups in Australia by employing Trotskyite "entryist" tactics, but to no avail as far as the Greens go.

Of course, in deliberately exploiting the different uses of the word 'green' in an effort to dupe potential voters, Col is using the same Trotskyist tactics that the socialists use when they publish the 'Green Left Weekly', hoping to snare the gullible and ignorant by misrepresenting themselves.

Mind you, it's useful when Col Rouge tells such lies repetitively, because each time he does it presents an opportunity to correct things for those who have been subject to the disinformation campaign mounted by "lying manipulative trolls" like him.

@ monocular:

I see that you've bought the Greens as extreme zealot spin, which is of course untrue. Perhaps you'd like to nominate an example of zealous extremism in Greens policy or practice, bearing in mind the distinction between "green" and Green. If your mind hasn't been closed completely by anti-Green disinformation, I recommend you read the following article from last Saturday's SMH:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/its-not-extreme-to-be-green-20110716-1hito.html

belly "I understand the greens are of great use to your conservative side of politics.
And that you see a better side of them than me, not For I am sure that reason."

As I've noted before I think we are fundamentally different in the way we think about the parties we tend to vote for, that makes a difference.

The coalition is for me a lesser of evils option, the conservative part has too much hold at the moment vs the part that values liberty.

I'm pretty certain that my views on the Greens are not notably influenced by how much use the Greens are to either of the big players. More I hope by what I hope is their contribution to the overall political system.

I do think that the Green's voice on issues which are widely supported in the community but strongly opposed by some groups (eg religious groups) gives a better chance of change than having the major's putting those issues in the too hard basket permanently.

The downside is that they may force a lurch to the Left for Labor to try and regain lost followers (in the same way One Nation appeared to force a lurch to the right with the Lib's). Neither extreme appeals to me in a major party.

As for the other thread I didn't see that discussion the way you did. I could be missing something but I've tried to understand your reaction and have not been able to find a reason for it.

R0bert

One world parliament!

How could you possibly think they were extreme?