Morganzola:"I'll bend over backwards to explain politely my views and the basis for them"

In fairness, I must say that you have improved in that regard since I last spent much time here, but the tendency to make a snide comment then take exception to anybody critiquing it is still strong. I'm afraid I see the same sort of thin skin in many Greens supporters, which gives me no confidence in the ability of the Party to be an inclusive, broad-based political force rather than simply a beneficiary of reaction against the general incompetence of the Government. Time will tell.

Col, I've no great desire to become a fanboi for Thatcher, but I have come to appreciate the emphasis on the individual and family as the basic social unit. The period since Thatcher has seen a concerted effort to reconstruct society in a Feminist mould, which has included a strong effort to undermine families as economic units that support themselves first and foremost, not to mention the efforts to disrupt the normal structure of the nuclear/extended family that has served so well.

Someone pointed out to me yesterday that the last time we had business conditions like this, we were at the bottom of Keating's J-curve, with interest rates at 17% and social welfare spending around 30% of revenues. Today they're at 7% and 45% respectively, mostly due to the enormously increased spend on "women's issues" and social reconstruction measures. The number of such measures has nearly doubled since the Keating recession.

The Greens are simply more of the same with an even greater disconnect from the reality of wealth generation. It's a party of people who've never paid their own way and regard this as perfectly natural. My nan used to put the biscuit barrel up where kids couldn't reach it - these kids could do with a nan like that. In their world, Nan just keeps making more biscuits no matter how many they eat and no one should ever put the jar up too high for the kids to reach.

@Antiseptic:

Thanks for your observation. However, when it comes to "snide", you really are pitching from within a glass house. With respect, your own gratuitous snideness frequently detracts from any sensible ideas you might be trying to communicate. It's a shame, because when you drop the aggro you sometimes post intelligent comments.

As far as the Greens appearing "thin-skinned" on occasions, I actually agree with you. Petulance is not a good look, and too often Greens MPs appear unnecessarily sanctimonious, IMHO.

A brief word ( a 90's flashback) from "our" *Patron Saint of Love Making*

" ... It's interesting that you have this symbol of *Pan* isn't it. Which if I were to put it into today's language is the "God of All Embracing Experience," where the cup is full and overflowing. ... "

..

My view is that as mere pathetic mortals, we ought not presume that we have jurisdiction over *Luv* or some right to make rules over whom should be allowed to Luv whom or otherwise, or that any one of us truly understands it "fully."

(Note: I am referring to mature consenting adults.)

..

I am no friend of those who abuse children by mandatory detention without trial or charge. Perhaps as Pell is Abbott's alleged svengali it ought not be surprising that the Liberal and Nationals support this.

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Wake up Australia. You have a foreign muppet of ill repute as a head of state, foreign troops in foreign bases on your soil who largely do as they please, 83% of your mining wealth goes offshore to parasites, you pay 5 times too much for all the red chinese crap in your shops that breaks sooner rather than later AND as long as the above remains unchanged, it is extremely unlikely that you will ever be accepted as a true regional partner and member of ASEAN.

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The *Greens* present a feint glimmer of hope in more ways than one, i.m.o.

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*Vote1 GreenBrowny for President*

Antiseptic: As a person now in his 40th year of work in this country, a tax payer all along, and a long time member of the Greens I take exception at your comment "It's a party of people who've never paid their own way" you could not be more wrong with your ill informed view. You know little about the Greens or their membership.

Paul, what's your line of work and is it in the private or public sector?

For the record, I'm a self-employed person who has been that way since 1999 and worked for 20 years before that in geotechnical engineering, with a few years in retail as a youngster. I started my current business in 2005, after being a contractor in the telcommunications sector of the construction industry for about 6 years.

I'd like to like the greens, but they have little time for people like me and lots of time and money (other people's, of course, in both cases a lot of the time) to devote to non-productive parts of the economy and creating CFD schemes masquerading as a serious effort to address the problem of reducing greenhouse emissions.

@Antiseptic:

I have to agree with Paul1405. Your comments about the Greens are obviously not based on any real knowledge of the party, but seem rather to be merely repetition of the same old disinformation that is endlessly dished out in the tabloid media, shock jocks and lunar right blogs. As it happens, the demographics of Greens voters indicates higher than average earnings and a tendency towards middle age.

I'm a small businessman, and I know many others - and professionals including doctors, lawyers etc who are Greens members. I don't get the sense that you really "want to like" the Greens, rather that you want them to be like you. You know that with your attitudes to women you'd last about 5 seconds in the Greens anyway, I reckon.

By all means criticise the Greens for their various failings, but could you please try and base your criticism on facts rather than tabloid factoids? Thanks.