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The Forum > Article Comments > Changing the gender paradigm: it’s women’s work > Comments

Changing the gender paradigm: it’s women’s work : Comments

By Jennifer Wilson, published 24/6/2011

No one has yet come up with a satisfactory explanation of why in our culture sexual difference is synonymous with gender inequality.

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*Women do not hold sexual power any more than men do*

Sheesh, in that case men will have to try a bit of role reversal
here. "Honey, if you go shopping for those clothes, I won't
sleep with you for a month" That should stop em.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 26 June 2011 11:50:19 AM
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Yes, Poirot I agree with your village analogy up to a point.

However, going back to the research that claims that from birth, and now pre birth, girls and boys are viewed differently by parents and society, girls as objects of the male and female gaze, boys in terms of what they accomplish, one has to accept that this is going to have an effect on how they both engage with the society in which they live.

This situation is peculiar to a capitalist society that stands to profit enormously from exploiting sexual difference. I don't know how any comparisons can be made between our culture and that of a traditional village. A girl child in a traditional village is not socialized as an object of the male and female gaze as is a girl child in a capitalist society.

My question is how much of gender role assignation in our society is constructed and controlled by capitalism? And how much of the "value" assigned to women and men is entirely determined by capitalism, and has nothing at all to do with so-called "natural" and inherent differences?
Posted by briar rose, Sunday, 26 June 2011 12:13:26 PM
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Peter, your claim that difference is solely defined by value is rubbish. (IMO)

We note a difference, and then we attach a value to that difference. If we're racist we note a black skin and a white skin and attribute a value or a set of values to that difference in skin colour without seeking any other information about the person concerned. If we're sexist, we do the same based on genitals.

That value is then inevitably regarded as a "moral" value. In fact it's entirely to do with what we like and what we don't like, or what we've been taught we should like or dislike, to which predispositions we add the weight of ethical significance.

As Nietzsche wrote somewhere in Beyond Good and Evil, morality is nothing more than emotions, and obedience to cultural customs. i.e. traditional ways of behaving and evaluating.

The child in the womb, as soon as it is sexed, is imbued with the cultural and moral evaluations that we traditionally consider appropriate to that sex. The values do not determine it's sex. Its sex determines the values that will be imposed on it.

Read what Yabby writes if there's any doubt as to the attribution of moral worth according to sex.
Posted by briar rose, Sunday, 26 June 2011 1:51:20 PM
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Jennifer, your premise that woman are paid less then men because
"womens work" is seen as less valuable, is clearly proven wrong
by the evidence.

Being a supermodel is largely deemed to be "womens work", they
are hardly shortchanged by the market. For that matter, neither
are super hookers.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 26 June 2011 2:48:33 PM
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Briar rose
In terms of traits, there are genetic traits, and also traits derived from environmental influences.

See genotype and phenotype, as I think most feminists undergoing mind training in universities often get the two mixed up.

http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/ahp/BioInfo/GP/Definition.html

Most people in society have a value, as most contribute in some way, although the contributions from some do seem very minimal if they carry out misinformation and bigotry.

To portray women are “carers” in very much a part of bigotry and misinformation, as it indirectly portrays men as being “non-carers”, and then men have to defend themselves from accusations of being “non-carers”.

I won’t bother attempting to defend myself from that type of accusation, but it could be left to the accuser to have a look around them.

If they are in a building, almost everything in that building has to be built and installed to a certain government standard to ensure the safety of any person in it.

That is caring, and that type of caring extends to nearly every aspect of everyone’s life now, because every time they get food from a shop the food has to be to a certain standard, and every time they drink water from a tap, the water has to be of a certain standard.

Those standards are there for the health and safety of people, regardless of who they are.

The idea that capitalism oppresses women is also misinformation and bigotry.

Build a house that doesn’t abide by council standards, and see how long the council allows you to keep the house, and not pull it down.
Posted by vanna, Sunday, 26 June 2011 3:14:56 PM
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""Honey, if you go shopping for those clothes, I won't
sleep with you for a month" That should stop em."

Yabby I have never in my life heard of any women who make those sorts of statements. That is something out of Hollywood. Where do some of you people live?

Men are qually capable of rejecting a woman if she is not to his liking. When women age their sexual 'powers' decrease while men tend to age more gracefully often looking more debonair and distinguished in older age. Perhaps Yabby it is swings and roundabouts and you can seek your revenge. :)

Sexual allure is not power - power can only be handed to someone not taken in this context.

As for Jennifer's article, thankfully the paradigm is changing and there are less rigid structures around what constitutes men's work or women's work. There are still some remnants in some spheres such as defence force participation and child care in the home more likely based on the fact that biologically women give birth and breastfeed but after that time, the choices are wider for men and women.

I have met as many nurturing and caring men as women, men can indeed be just as capable of being the primary carer. It is all a matter of individual characteristics rather than gender generalisations.

While there are obvious differences between men and women they are not so profound as to enable any rigid rules around work. There may be less attraction for many women to work on construction sites but equally there are more women attracted to nursing in aged care homes.

It doesn't matter really as long as people are free to make choices.
Posted by pelican, Sunday, 26 June 2011 4:36:19 PM
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